Shhhh! I wanted him to think that Raja was just REALLY passionate about the Ryzen!
itsmydamnation
Veteran
The passmark Zen has terrible memory 2400 17-17-17. On my ivb @4.3 going from ddr 3 2000 10-11-10 to ddr 3 1066 7-7-7. ( still faster latency then Zen) drops my Cpu score by 800 point mainly from prime number and physics subtests. Going to 1066 10-11-10 drops it another 800 points so it's definitely latency not throughput related.
hoom
Veteran
I feel like this post needs some more attention.
Google translate seems to be doing a good job for Japanese & the slides are in English.
Those aren't even normal PR gumf/fake leaked slides, they're official 2017 AMD slides for a presentation to IEEE & with core/module shots
If AMD has really pulled off smaller cores, similar clocks, similar IPC & similar TDP vs Intel despite weaker process tech that's a hell of a comeback!
The Bullet Physics library it is testing similarly under performs on Apple's A7 and newer, despite those being otherwise being very capable cores.
https://www.futuremark.com/pressrel...results-from-the-apple-iphone-5s-and-ipad-air
The image is a photoshopped one ( not quite sure about the message behind anyway ).Original image with Raja about the new AMD coolers for Ryzen
He is even trying to hide Vega.
I think that's the big picture, yeah. However, judging bythe reputed armchair die pic analysists' opinions on the web, FPU performance (AVX only?) seems to suffer a bit more on Zen. So theres still no free lunch, unfortunately
https://videocardz.com/65892/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-and-ryzen-5-1600x-will-require-special-coolersProbably the most interesting part of this leak is the existence of two TDP levels for the whole stack of Ryzen CPUs. No matter if we take Ryzen 3 1100 or Ryzen 7 1700, both will have a TDP at 65W. However, it’s important to note that TDP does not stand for power consumption, as TDP stands for Thermal Design Power.
Three processors: Ryzen 7 1800X, Ryzen 7 1700X and Ryzen 5 1600X will not only have 95W TDP by specs, but also a special kind of cooler as a requirement (HS81). According to the leaked datasheet, this cooler will ensure that the temperature will not exceed 60C (in most cases). This, as a result, should increase the overclocking potential thanks to new technology called Extended Frequency Range (XFR), which basically allows clock speeds to scale with cooling solutions, without a requirement of user intervention. What we don’t know is whether this technology will be enabled just for the SKUs with the “X”, or for other models as well.
OPN numbers in the leak above are legitimate. I can see them in the listings from one of the biggest computer wholesaler in Europe.
Also regarding yesterday results from PassMark, Physics and Prime relatively low scores are due to high memory latency of Ryzen test machine (14ns). A member on another forum played with timings on his Ivy processor (keeping CPU clock constant @4.3GHz):
Tested by itsmydamnation over at Anand's
Also regarding yesterday results from PassMark, Physics and Prime relatively low scores are due to high memory latency of Ryzen test machine (14ns). A member on another forum played with timings on his Ivy processor (keeping CPU clock constant @4.3GHz):
Code:
##1066 10-11-10 (18.7ns)
CPU Mark This Computer 9230
Integer Math This Computer 19408
Floating Point Math This Computer 8121
Prime Numbers This Computer 19.8
Extended Instructions (SSE) This Computer 225.8
Compression This Computer 14193
Encryption This Computer 2024
Physics This Computer 359.7
Sorting This Computer 8723
CPU Single Threaded This Computer 2370
##1066 7-7-7 (13ns)
CPU Mark This Computer 9932
Integer Math This Computer 19862
Floating Point Math This Computer 8305
Prime Numbers This Computer 25.5
Extended Instructions (SSE) This Computer 227.5
Compression This Computer 15206
Encryption This Computer 2078
Physics This Computer 413.9
Sorting This Computer 8589
CPU Single Threaded This Computer 2327
###1333 8-8-8 (12ns)
CPU Mark This Computer 10140
Integer Math This Computer 17076
Floating Point Math This Computer 8182
Prime Numbers This Computer 29.1
Extended Instructions (SSE) This Computer 220.0
Compression This Computer 14959
Encryption This Computer 2040
Physics This Computer 476.2
Sorting This Computer 8557
CPU Single Threaded This Computer 2367
###1333 7-7-7 (10.5ns)
CPU Mark This Computer 10516
Integer Math This Computer 19445
Floating Point Math This Computer 8457
Prime Numbers This Computer 29.9
Extended Instructions (SSE) This Computer 228.5
Compression This Computer 15119
Encryption This Computer 2074
Physics This Computer 503
Sorting This Computer 8761
CPU Single Threaded This Computer 2375
##2000 10-11-10 (10ns)
CPU Mark 10673
Integer Math 19504
Floating Point Math 8336
Prime Numbers 31.5
Extended Instructions (SSE) 219.1
Compression 14806
Encryption 1944
Physics 597
Sorting 8577
CPU Single Threaded 2358Tested by itsmydamnation over at Anand's
hoom
Veteran
I guess the big question then is if that is something likely to be a common load for Consumers/Gamers/Supercomputers & to what extent GPU compute can be used to offset it.
Transponster
Newcomer
Cheapest Zen - $129, cheapest Intel with 4 cores - $182, might be a tough sell.
Transponster
Newcomer
That would have been funny, if it wasn't so FX.
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itsmydamnation
Veteran
This would be a useful post if your point wasn't so stupid...........
Transponster
Newcomer
Ayy, I'm not the one equating cores.
$182 CPU from Intel is going to compete with "$199" AMD CPU, "$175" - at best, not with the "$129" one.
And my point was, lacking(non-existent) low-end is a problem, 64$ Intel is more than sufficient for most people right now, why would they pay 2 times as much for something that isn't even 1,5 times better?
Feel free to post the benchmarks that back your statement.
Hell, Intel's own quads are 3x the price for "not even 1.5 better" compared to an oced Pentium, I am not sure what your point is.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
Maybe you should educate yourself on what the Zen Core looks like.
heres a run down.
L1D latency/ size/way = skylake
L1i latency/size/way = twice size of skylake 1/2 the ways
L2 latency/size/way = twice size of skylake, same latency, dont know the ways off top of my head
L3 latency/size/way = low latency within CCX, same size (4 core to 4 core ) same way, L3 exclusive in Zen vs inclusive of skylake
decode = Aprox same size ( 4 wide), reads 32 bytes a cycle vs 16? for skylake? ,
op cache = both around the same size, both 6 uops to dispatch
register files/ load store queue/schedule/ retirement = all approx the same as skylake some sizes more like broadwell, both can retire 8 ops a cycle
both Cores have SMT
ALU = both have 4 int alu Zen doesn't share ports with FPU like skylake
AGU = skylake can generate one more address
load store = both can do 2loads and 1 store a cycle, Zen max size being 128bit while skylakes is 256bit
branch = both can do two branches a cycle , doesn't share port with FPU like skylake
FPU = Zen has 2x 128bit FMA/MUL & 2x 128bit ADD , skylake 2x 256bit FMA 1x 256bit misc ops port
Then we are in to the harder to gauge parts, both have high quality prefetch, predict, L2 based prefetchers etc.
Zen has an integer checkpoint/rollback unit that i haven't found any detail on
Zen has a stack engine and local storage for calculating/holding the stack address
Zen miss predict penality is listed as 3 cycles shorter ( i assume against Con cores) make it comparable to skylake @ 17-19 cycles
95watt 8 core part consumes around the same power as 6900k at around the same clocks for around the same performance in Bf1, blender demo ( what you can download and run yourself) and x264.
So why exactly can't we equate cores, be specific please!
Before you try and say they would price like intel if it was performing like intel RV770 would like to say hello, this is the exact same position the recovery chip after the previous disaster ( R600 / CON cores) .
Whats that got to do with anything? that part comes later. This 1 AMD chip it doing the job of 4! Intel chips, mid and high side of mainstream (sky/kaby lake) Xeon D, Xeon E and Xeon EP. Im sure your the kind of person who would argue the 1070 & 1080 aren't making stupid amount of money for NV because most people only need a $50 GPU......................
To add to this point, a rough check of the pixel area of what I think is the vector unit of the 6700K takes possibly around 23% of the core+L2 area. Zen's rough labeling of what I think is equivalent is around 16%.
I think getting double throughput could at a minimum increase the area of the Zen block by a third. Depending on how that goes, that can add back ~1.2 mm2 for the overall block.
The integer and load/store block may be another area of area savings. It doesn't sport the additional store AGU, and the data paths are half of Skylake's. Unknown is the contribution of some of the other Intel features like transactional memory on the pipeline and L1 cache.
The L2 density comparison probably includes the interface/control logic for both processors. This does have an outsized effect for the smaller L2 since the more dense SRAM arrays can scale more readily while the logic overhead is less flexible. This is on top of the higher bandwidth of the Intel L2 (more burden on the non-SRAM component), and possibly the removal of sources of bank conflicts in the cache per Agner's optimization doc. It is fair to say that AMD's choice appears to give more capacity per unit of area, but at a minimum it comes at the cost of bandwidth, and possibly there are banking conflicts. Bulldozer cores at least up to Steamroller had frequent L1 bank conflicts (Excavator was not documented), the L2 was generally terrible so I am not sure if there were issues with banking in that mass of problems.
The L3 comparison is also interesting because the L3 of the 6700K appears to have a packing problem. The lower side of the quad-core area appears to take up more room than the L3 arrays can fill. The comparison between the more tightly packed Zen module and Skylake may be including some of that dead space. That's perhaps a fair point to make, but the reason would be that Intel's LLC and interconnect are designed to scale readily beyond 4 cores per ring. What that means for performance or the higher CCX counts remains to be seen.
The area win may be a bit more modest than advertised, and it does come as a trade-off in terms of throughput in various sections of the CCX, and possibly a different slope to the multicore scaling curve.
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