Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[MrFox]

Is there any chance Sony will make the Playstation VR available to other platforms? Have they commented on it?

I remember a journalist asking that, and they gave the typical PR statement "we currently have no plans".

I think if the goal is to add new experiences to the PS4 platform and expand the user base, making drivers for platforms were they get no revenue from games would be counter-productive. Unless they sell the headset as the primary source of profit of this endeavor, which I seriously doubt.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I remember a journalist asking that, and they gave the typical PR statement "we currently have no plans".

Yes, this was asked several times at Sony's GDC 2014 presentation during the Q&A session. The same question was asked by different people in different ways and the same answer every time: "We're just focussing on PlayStation 4 at the moment."

This video, 47:40 in.

 

[DieH@rd]

I don't. I have a personal laptop and a work laptop. None of that other stuff at all.

Then you will also need a monitor, which was not included in that PC component shopping list.

 

[Arwin]

Now that I have tried (cheap) VR on my phone, I am very curious about trying it on PS4 (and PC). Though I also think that what is on iOS now is really cheap and crappy, very little serious effort.

 

[Rurouni]

I tried the Gear VR this weekend, with a Galaxy S6.

Although S6 screen is excellent, remember that it uses pentile arrangement. If my understanding is correct then the subpixel number between a true 1920x1080 screen vs 2560x1440 pentile screen is 6220800 vs 7372800. So not much of a difference. Of course in your case it's because the content is available in lower resolution. But even in native res, the difference between 1080 vs 1440 pentile isn't much. So the good experience with gear VR is probably more because the tech itself (screen, sensor, and overall build quality) and not the screen resolution itself vs 1080p LCD cardboard solution.

 

[eastmen]

Although S6 screen is excellent, remember that it uses pentile arrangement. If my understanding is correct then the subpixel number between a true 1920x1080 screen vs 2560x1440 pentile screen is 6220800 vs 7372800. So not much of a difference. Of course in your case it's because the content is available in lower resolution. But even in native res, the difference between 1080 vs 1440 pentile isn't much. So the good experience with gear VR is probably more because the tech itself (screen, sensor, and overall build quality) and not the screen resolution itself vs 1080p LCD cardboard solution.

Its not a true pentile , it uses their diamond pentile . You can see some of the evolution of pentile

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...crets-of-the-brightest-AMOLED-display_id54772

here is a great read on the S5 screen and the improvements it has over the S4 . Now the Blue Sub pixel is the same size as the red one

 

[hughJ]

Trying to do any sort of subpixel math to directly compare the two in some sort of spec battle is a waste of time, imo. There's a pretty subjective qualitative difference between RGB stripe and various GRGB arrangements and resolutions. Either way I think it's fair to say that all the current displays are roughly in the same ballpark of fidelity and performance and that none of them are sufficient to be universally accepted. We're going to need at least another cycle (maybe two) of display panels before we hear complaints of low pixel density and visible screen door start to die down, and who knows what the headset landscape will look like by then.

 

[Arwin]

Maybe, but didn't the Anandtech interview mention that there was no screen door effect anymore on PSVR? So there at least things seem promising.

On my iPhone the screen door effect is the least important issue. Bad geometry low resolution and low frame rate are the major issues.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Screen door is caused by visible space between (sub?)pixels. If the pixels are large enough, there shouldn't be any problem.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yeah. Screen door effect is noticeable because of the (sub) pixel fill factor.

 

[MrFox]

So far there are some hints that morpheus might be using optical filtering to reduce screen-door in addition to the RGB sub-pixels. We still have little info about the optics.

The visible screen door is the pixel gap between sub pixels of the same color, not between any sub-pixels. There's also a big gap around all sub-pixels (for the circuitry on glass), so the fill factor looks about 6% on the red channel of a pentile screen. Even if they had an amazing new stacked technology with 100% fill of sub-pixels, the actual perceived pixel gap would average 33%, with only 25% for Red/Blue and 50% for Green.

Pentile is still pentile, no matter what new branding they use, diamond or otherwise. The idea of using a pentile screen for VR is pure stupidity unless your display is significantly higher res than your source. It's a major waste of processing power, as it filters down 2/3 of the data to half the input resolution. The rendering pipeline is not capable of rendering different channels at different resolution. The bandwidth available is also wasted as there are no frame buffers for pentile. It also chains filters which makes the image even worse. Optical filtering is a big clusterfuck with pentile because the optical properties required are different between green and red/blue.

TL;DR
Sony's choice of RGB pixels was an important decision impacting many aspects: processing power efficiency, bandwidth efficiency, screen door reduction, enabling 120Hz, and possibly simplifying (or even enabling) optical filtering if they chose to do so.

 

[Skaal]

So far there are some hints that morpheus might be using optical filtering to reduce screen-door in addition to the RGB sub-pixels. We still have little info about the optics.

The visible screen door is the pixel gap between sub pixels of the same color, not between any sub-pixels. There's also a big gap around all sub-pixels (for the circuitry on glass), so the fill factor looks about 6% on the red channel of a pentile screen. Even if they had an amazing new stacked technology with 100% fill of sub-pixels, the actual perceived pixel gap would average 33%, with only 25% for Red/Blue and 50% for Green.

Pentile is still pentile, no matter what new branding they use, diamond or otherwise. The idea of using a pentile screen for VR is pure stupidity unless your display is significantly higher res than your source. It's a major waste of processing power, as it filters down 2/3 of the data to half the input resolution. The rendering pipeline is not capable of rendering different channels at different resolution. The bandwidth available is also wasted as there are no frame buffers for pentile. It also chains filters which makes the image even worse. Optical filtering is a big clusterfuck with pentile because the optical properties required are different between green and red/blue.

TL;DR
Sony's choice of RGB pixels was an important decision impacting many aspects: processing power efficiency, bandwidth efficiency, screen door reduction, enabling 120Hz, and possibly simplifying (or even enabling) optical filtering if they chose to do so.

Finaly someone has come to the right conclusion. Everything you just said has my support.
Ps: iam the new One. Iam from germany. I hope my english grammar skills are sufficient.
If not feel free to correct me

 

[Arwin]

Screen door is caused by visible space between (sub?)pixels. If the pixels are large enough, there shouldn't be any problem.

It is visible, but you only notice it with things like websites. With most things you actually want to do however, this is clearly not the most important issue for VR.

I tried it with kids, and they really enjoyed it. I also played an amusing VR version of crossy road, but the controls are bad and I think the camera is a bit suboptimal or the small field of view makes it unnatural, not sure which is worse. But the feeling of looking left and right to plan crossing the street is actually pretty good.

 

[goonergaz]

I only noticed it during the text before the demo started - and that was big white text!

 

[London Geezer]

It is visible, but you only notice it with things like websites. With most things you actually want to do however, this is clearly not the most important issue for VR.

I tried it with kids, and they really enjoyed it. I also played an amusing VR version of crossy road, but the controls are bad and I think the camera is a bit suboptimal or the small field of view makes it unnatural, not sure which is worse. But the feeling of looking left and right to plan crossing the street is actually pretty good.

I've been playing Crossy Road and Shooty Skies almost non stop for weeks. Silly little games but so addictive. VR versions would end my life.

 

[orangpelupa]

i just met a bunch of old friends on a lunch and.. asked them about VR.

all of them know VR.
None of them heard of Vive and its room scale tracking.
All of them know oculus and PSVR (they still call it as Morpheus).

all of them said they wont buy the VR at launch :/
the concern was: price, headache, game, PC's spec.

 

[eastmen]

So far there are some hints that morpheus might be using optical filtering to reduce screen-door in addition to the RGB sub-pixels. We still have little info about the optics.

The visible screen door is the pixel gap between sub pixels of the same color, not between any sub-pixels. There's also a big gap around all sub-pixels (for the circuitry on glass), so the fill factor looks about 6% on the red channel of a pentile screen. Even if they had an amazing new stacked technology with 100% fill of sub-pixels, the actual perceived pixel gap would average 33%, with only 25% for Red/Blue and 50% for Green.

Pentile is still pentile, no matter what new branding they use, diamond or otherwise. The idea of using a pentile screen for VR is pure stupidity unless your display is significantly higher res than your source. It's a major waste of processing power, as it filters down 2/3 of the data to half the input resolution. The rendering pipeline is not capable of rendering different channels at different resolution. The bandwidth available is also wasted as there are no frame buffers for pentile. It also chains filters which makes the image even worse. Optical filtering is a big clusterfuck with pentile because the optical properties required are different between green and red/blue.

TL;DR
Sony's choice of RGB pixels was an important decision impacting many aspects: processing power efficiency, bandwidth efficiency, screen door reduction, enabling 120Hz, and possibly simplifying (or even enabling) optical filtering if they chose to do so.

when comparing pentile to pentile being able to reduce the largest sub pixel will only help.

DK2 uses note 3 screens. Cresent bay being over a year old would have used something new from the 4th gen galaxy line. The newest CV1 prototype could have been using the new screens.

So compared to the note 3 screen which was only 1080p we are at 1440p. Instead of Blue and red being the only diamond shape pixels with green being oval all 3 are diamond. This allows them to be spaced closer together. Then finally we have the blue sub pixel reducing in size to match the red one. All 3 changes should allow the sub pixels to be packed more tightly together.

And that is of course if they use pentile . Cresent bay and now the CV1 prototype have 2 smaller screens inside. So we don't really know what type of screen they are using. The same could be said about the vive also .


When listening to comparisons its important to note which models of what are compared to what.


All we really know is that the rift is running two screens that split a 2160x1200 resolution (1080x600 per eye) at 90hz

if its pentile or rgb is not yet known

 

[MrFox]

When listening to comparisons its important to...

... to post in the comparison thread.

I am comparing sony's choices of possible pixel layouts, and justifying their early decision of rgb pixels at 1080p when designing a custom screen specifically for VR. So which ones of the competitors are following sony's lead (about balancing pixel structure and resolution to get the most out of available technology) is besides the point.

For optical filtering, my bet is on a simple cylindrical outcoupling film (a lenticular film that is easy to produced and align, as opposed to a complete micro-lens array which is horribly difficult to align), this would match the way journalists are describing what they perceived as mild vertical stripes but no black between them. This type of outcoupling film is only possible with a full rgb screen.

Any form of matte diffuser screen is probably a bad idea, it scatters light and makes an annoying fuzziness. People described morpheus as "crisp" which a diffuser prevents, so does a fresnel. So I am also betting on it not using the fine fresnel others are using, and I have no idea how that is possible without a really heavy lens, I can't wait for a teardown.

 

[DieH@rd]

Two new games are coming to the PSVR, bur most interestingly, both are "expansions" of the 2D titles that are leveraging on the already created game worlds.

"Rush of Blood" DLC for Until Dawn [on-rails FPS experience]
http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-new-dlc-coming-for-until-dawn-titled-rush-of-blood-316687.phtml

Volume: Coda, free VR expansion of the popular PS4 puzzle game that will feature 30 campaign levels and the access to the user-generated levels
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/10/22/introducing-volume-coda-free-expansion-for-playstation-vr/

 

[upnorthsox]

Do we have a PSVR Games list thread yet or is it piecemeal at the moment?