I think Microsoft has put themselves in a better position by lowering the price by $100. I'm not sure if the performance gap is as big as the price difference. People did not seem warm to Kinect, at least at $500. I'm not one to make predictions, because I know the best people in the prediction business are terrible at it, so I'm just going to sit and wait and see what happens.
Kinect-less XB1 fallout thread *spawn
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ok... im not saying all manufacturing is free. PS4 GPU disables two cores also So i guess MS just choise the wrong chip to compete with PS this go round. The $100 Bonaire chip is just the GPU at retail price, so its $10 less than the full X1 APU...
There are two important details to mention here... The X360 /and Xbox in general/ has always been the challenger.
PS3 lost 70 million sales, compared to the console of the masses, the PS2.
It's not about losing a battle when it has always been lost.
X360 was a hit, the most important thing is not winning against PS4, but having a healthy amount of sales and let the PS4 do its thing.
Power is not as important, it's the library of games!
Power wise, the Xbox One is the console with the greatest leverage over time of this generation.
Just 'cos it was designed and designed thinking of some constraints rather than putting something superb powerful there /the best ideas usually come from limitations/ :smile2:: DMEs, eSRAM, SHAPE, scaler, etc.
I am most interested in what the Xbox One can achieve 'cos of that.
Just bring the best possible library of games as you can expect from Phil Spencer and people won't care.
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I don't know if you are planning on buying a PS Camera, but to me not being standard, is a dead device. It's 40€ you can save, not a joke.
IF there is a compelling game for the camera it might be worth it to pick it up because of that game. I have Kinect and if a Kinect game appeared you can rave about, I'd dust my Kinect off, but to me it's a dead device, except for scientific purposes.
The lessons you learn over this is to get rid of everything that is not going to make it for you.
Whether you are more or less wealthy, it doesn't matter, but you can save 40€, in my view at least.
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My bad I thought they just unveiled it. I run 8.1 update 1 I should know better.
Thing is they need to sell phones for the developers to port apps all together to windows platform.
I would happily buy a winphone, low end, but really those new 630/5 are a hard sell against a Moto G.
anyway I was wrong, yet it is still a long way too go to offers iOS or Android type of catalogue, not that Sony offers that either. But from what I read Sony is covering the basis pretty well.
I agree that why I wrote what I did, I expect that within 2 years the change in MSFT policies (universal apps, no license fee, etc.) will have allowed MSFT to do more a significant dent into the market, doing so more apps will get port. If those changes don't make it happen, nothing will.
Well I don't really 'like' Sony, the ps4 just look more compelling to me at the moment.
I don't think I will buy it either, with directx12 around corner, a new lithography, and 64 bit ARM processors I'm more likely to wait and buy a htpc with decent gaming capabilities.
I agree and you put into words some of my feelings on the issue.
Kinect was the last bastion against the angry masses,
and I was thinking about having patience, that it would work, that something awesome would happen sooner or later and that it'd be worthwhile.But Microsoft isn't like Nintendo, where infinite patience and conformism work, as they can't lose 3rd party support.
And 3rd parties treated Kinect like shit, so to the shit it went.
I only disagree with that. Microsoft spent a lot of money in R+D with Kinect.
They gave full support to it in the initial stages when it was presented and some games were at least decent.
In addition, bundling Kinect with the Xbox One means "full support" to me.
Problem is, there was nothing compelling and unique created for it -blame Microsoft or blame others too, but that was, alas, the reality-, save the 3D face scanning, consumers were against it....
MS should open up the Kinect technology to allow anyone to utilize it in their systems (for whatever use, not just consoles) and make some money back on it. What's better for encouraging devs to include Kinect support than it being available for PS4 and PC/Steambox as well?
Yes I know the odds of this happening are rather tiny.
Yes I know the odds of this happening are rather tiny.
The PC version should support a lot of different applications. I'm sure it'll be sold at a bigger premium than the console version. Probably not a huge market there, but for special applications people will hack them into different hardware environments. You're not going to see it plugging into the PS4 though. Could someone make it work with the Steambox? Yah, maybe. I guess it wouldn't be official. PC will have official support whenever it finally gets released.
Interface probably doesn't make much difference to most consumers. Certainly the UI isn't an obvious system seller if you don't have something unique like voice input. Ecosystem is only relevant to those already interested/part of the ecosystem. Apps and media functionality is mostly going to be the same across platforms. Services are, I think, approaching parity due to Sony improving and MS taking a backwards step. HDMI in is probably extremely niche for console gamers as evaluated by social feedback. So it's down to a handfyul of exclusives, or lots of money-hatting. Importantly, the hardware hasn't got anything to compete with. Everything you've talked about save HDMI and ecosystem is software and deals, which Sony can theoretically do too and nullify any advantage MS may have.
Right, but that's a minority of people. The success of XB1 would be dependent on MS's ability to expand their ecosystem reach - it's not going to sell on its own merits as a standalone device.
That's only true when the libraries are different. When 98% of games are cross-platform, the one that plays them better has a clear advantage. So then it's a matter of price to play those 98% of games, and possibly services.Power is not as important, it's the library of games!
So far the arguments I'm seeing that promote XB1 adoption are all about reaching MS's existing audience. People who have Live will want to stay on XBox, and people in the MS ecosystem will want to stay there. That pretty much caps XB1's performance this gen at 80 million, and they are going to lose some of that. Is it really just a matter of trying to shore in those XB fans and stop them leeching to the opposition, or ditching consoles altogether and switching to PC? That's not a great business position to be in! That's basically what's happened to Nintendo over the generations (excepting Wii), who have steadily been losing fans to rival platforms and seen their install-base dwindle.
That's birthing it. They did that.
That's supporting it, and that's where MS abandoned it. They created it and then left it to fend for itself. You simply can't do that with a new product you want to establish in a big way. It needs constant development and promotion. Perhaps the modern era of quick, explosive fads has rubbed off on MS and they if something they try doesn't reach immediate, wide-stream success, they consider it not worth anything? If the social feedback from the gamers had been hugely positive, would they have spent more on developing it, but instead listened to the wrong people and reacted?
RancidLunchmeat
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My point was that MS is going to stop manufacturing Kinects and that by the time they refresh the Xbox, they'll be no need to include a Kinect connector. It would be a pointless waste of real estate at that point.
If the Xbox even survives to a refresh, that is. Again, as Laa-Yosh likes to point out, pure speculation on my part. But my speculation is based on the idea that MS just admitted that Kinect is a failure and all support for it (at least in terms of integration with the Xbox) will be over by the time any refreshed console makes its way to store shelves.
upnorthsox
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If they do keep it, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed to a usb connector. That way they could move it to PC too.
Whether for Kinect, Move, Wii, balance board, etc... third parties won't make pure motion games by themselves because they become naturally exclusive. So the console maker must pay up for every single one of them. They must at least pay for the lost revenue from other consoles.
An unproven control scheme is a lot of risk for the game studio. Pay up more for this too!
If AAA teams making multi-platform franchises consistently produce 100 million revenue per game, they better pay up a huge pile of cash for that team, otherwise they'll get the B team. If you had the choice between an on-rail shooter with Kinect INSTEAD of the next Gears of War, would you think it's a fair trade?
If they had a great AAA kinect game to show at E3 they wouldn't have diskinected the XB1. It looks like Microsoft didn't pay for those things. Which isn't surprising because it doesn't make any business sense.
It pretty much already is a USB connector, except it carries additional power. The PC version of it has already been announced:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/kinectforwi...revealing-kinect-for-windows-v2-hardware.aspx
As for comments like "if they keep going with it", of course they are going to. The additional connector is not really taking up much real-estate or going to save much costs.
RancidLunchmeat
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I still see people speaking in terms of something that hasn't happened and yet is the only way for the Xbox to survive. And that's drop the price below the PS4.
Yet, what is the liklihood of that happening? MS has demonstrated that they do not want to lose money on the Xbox, and that's clearly the motivation behind removing Kinect and lowering the price rather than simply lowering the price.
Can MS drop the console $50 to $75 under the PS4 before the holidays, which would essentially be two price drops in half a year and not lose money on the console? I doubt it.
And I doubt they are planning to lose money on the console, because if they were, they'd have just dropped the price to $349 without Kinect right now, or would have dropped the price to $399 and included Kinect.
So where's the speculation about what happens when MS doesn't get the Xbox's price below the PS4's and continues to attempt to generate sales based upon brand name and ecosystem as those few MS Xbox supporters on here have continually claimed to be good enough reasons for ownership that they offset the reduced performance?
Thanks Davros. I guess that's good news (I hope) and even more reason now to continue with plans to release on Windows. I think it would be great to incorporate into a HTPC environment with WMC utilizing some of the features currently on the XBone.
Oh that's right, MS couldn't give 2 shits about WMC anymore.
Isn't most of the speculation that's going on here about Microsoft price-matching rather than dropping below? Seems like most, including you, are predicting Xbox One will explode into flames like a zeppelin.
Pricing is a weird thing. Marketing departments are armed with a huge amount of data. Arm-chair pricing is kind of ... dumb, beyond some obvious things like, "Lower is better." We have no idea what their goals are. I'm sure they have monetary goals for different aspects of their platform, and performance is not measured strictly in terms of absolute unit sales vs the competition.
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