NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
- Thread starter Barso
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Yes, but the final resolution you export to has less to do with how much RAM is available, and more to do with how much of that RAM you can send to the GPU each frame, I'd think. Personally, I don't think either console will be able to max out their per-frame asset allocation, so I don't expect to see a lot of differentiation there.
Averagejoe
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Since March 2012 (even further back from the alpha dev kit), people have been circulating PS4 rumors:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/02/...l-be-an-x86-cpu-with-an-amd-gpu/#.UP6-xiiEklJ
I suppose that Compute Unit Eurogamer spoke about is the DSP. The SPUs were called DSPs before. So I guess any vector engine with a local store is referred to as a DSP by these people.
EDIT: It would explain why none of the alpha devkit leaks mention an extra Compute Unit. They wrote abut extra hardware for processing video, audio, etc. I am very curious what exactly Eurogamer saw. Probably just a tech doc ?
I remember and old article about Cell i think it was from anantech about Cell and some one call the SPE DSP,but was in response to some apparently from MS who call SPE nothing more that useless DSP.
Yes, that would be Major Nelson. ^_^
*shrug*
Kaz Hirai seems very proud of Sony's 4K work. He highlighted Sony's proprietary scaling tech for 1080p <-> 4K scaling. Perhaps there is indeed scaling hardware in PS4 (or something assisting it).
It also depends on how up-to-date their leaked tech docs are. I believe this is the primary source of leaks. Someone on GAF sent me a summary, thinking that I am one of the dudes he met in a convention. From the info, it looks like that version of tech doc is outdated w.r.t. CPU cores. But most of it matches what others are reporting.
EDIT: A CPU vector extension may be correct too since the new rumors confirmed a switch to Jaguar cores. So all past leaks about Steamroller CPU cores would be outdated.
Well it is not that far, the subject came into the discussion again not that long ago, are SPU CPUs?
Imo no, even Abrash in one of his paper describe the Cell as 1 CPU and 8 coprocessors, I would bet he knows what he is talking about
Do you have a link to his post ? Eurogamer was talking about a unit outside the GPU. They wondered why it's not inside
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46748385&postcount=3513
Averagejoe
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Funny how all of s sudden a part which is not included on the GPU already is been accounted for it alone side it,sound like the whole argument on how the 720 will be 100% efficient comments that started to rain from Aegies as soon as the specs were posted on VGleaks and people begin to complain about the low specs.
Averagejoe
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Yeah like all developer would stop using the PS2 as lead platform in favor of a complete unknown platform from a new comer,by the time the xbox hit the market the PS2 was 20 months old almost 2 years,and had like a 15 million ahead on MS if not more,you were asking to much from developer,in fact the xbox library wasn't even close to the PS2 one there where more than 1 thousandth games on PS2 that never make it to the xbox.
Durango has more Ram both Ram doesn't equate to power,there are many cards out there with allot more ram than other while been weaker and delivering lower frames.
Also the PS4 one is say to be faster which also make up for not having as much.
You last part is apparent that your letting your personal taste in it,this generation will have nothing to do with the next, saying the xbox is the defacto brand in US says nothing,so was Nintendo and Sony was even more the defacto brand world wide now look how things play out this gen..
You are even already naming prices,when the current xbox is old tech and is been sold still today for $300.
Cool ! I wonder if Eurogamer will clarify. The Compute Unit is explicitly said to be outside the GPU. We shall see.
Well it is not that far, the subject came into the discussion again not that long ago, are SPU CPUs?
Imo no, even Abrash in one of his paper describe the Cell as 1 CPU and 8 coprocessors, I would bet he knows what he is talking about
It's an "in-between" !
...because the SPUs are tightly integrated into a CPU and can handle some OS and general purpose functions (e.g. running a scheduler or Java VM). But modern DSPs probably have evolved further these days.
Cheers, ERP can you share what you know about the ESRAM, is it similar in function to the daughter die on the X360?
Averagejoe
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It would be interesting because they clearly state is not part of the GPU that is stand alone and they we're assure of it..
There is an incentive for studios to create the best looking games they can, if developers can take advantage of 1.5-3GB more RAM on Durango than they will, if Orbis has more FLOPS than Durango than they'll utitlize it. If both consoles come with custom blocks on the side then they'll be utilized depending on the value of those blocks.
There weren't as many common denominator games this generation as people believe but rather most games, particularly later in the generation, utilized the HW value necessary for their individual design needs.
There weren't as many common denominator games this generation as people believe but rather most games, particularly later in the generation, utilized the HW value necessary for their individual design needs.
Averagejoe
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Proelite
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46754767&postcount=3613
I really find this odd,if you know both consoles are or par or close what would make you say this...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46754767&postcount=3613
I really find this odd,if you know both consoles are or par or close what would make you say this...
Looking at it from another perspective.
Microsoft probably is expecting PS4 to be using maximum 4GB RAM.
They know they're using DDR3 and that does mean that they can't use THAT much bandwidth per frame, but because DDR3 is cheap, they went ahead and got 8GB of it anyway.
Both of these basically is telling Microsoft that there is probably no f***ing way that devs will fill up anything past the 5GB point with anything really meaningful other than cache.
We're looking at 68 GB/s here. Lets target 30fps which gives us the largest bandwidth per frame with a reasonable framerate.
That gives us a mere 2.28GB/frame, assuming perfect efficiency.
5GB is more than TWICE that.
If I were a Microsoft engineer and faced such a situation, I would surely say ya go ahead and reserve 3GB for the OS and all the other stuff we might stuff in later.
What's the difference for the game department if they reserve 3GB or1GB?
You'd still be looking at bandwidth of 2.28GB/ frame, with total memory of 5GB vs 7GB.
Large difference? hmm.
Reserve 3GB? go for it.
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Averagejoe
Regular
I just don't understand MS decision for this it just doesn't make sense,i was looking now on Toms hardware,most GPU of 2011,2012 are all GDDR5 the majority from 512MB GDDR5 to 4 GB..
According to some posts here it feels to me that the xbox team is now full of MBAs instead of gamers.
Don't kid yourself. Every tech company is loaded with those people. It's just a matter of degrees (bad pun intended). bkillian didn't seem to be happy they'd gone with more of a bottom-line mentality, but it isn't as if you have a bunch of business guys engineering the software and hardware.
There are gamers on this board and others that expected an Xbox 720 with a couple Xeons, a Power 7, and a server rack of storage.
That may not be quite as bad as some are making it to be.
I have been the most stoic resistor to the notion of massive OS reservations. However, if all the rumours and noises are saying that, it's time to reconsider rather than indulge in denial. What exactly is a console OS? I mentioned Orbis's significant 512 MB OS footprint, and if that includes all the features of the PS3 optional functions that consumed significant MBs (things like Friend List taking 20 MBs, Voice Chat taking 20 MBs, all on top of the OS reservation), it's not such a huge chunk relative to PS3.
So what could 3 GBs be? Maybe there's 1 GB HDD cache, handled by the OS? Maybe enough for a webpage for in-game guides? There's going to be something taken up by Kinect and voice recognition. IIRC they are more data driven than processing driven.
In short though, I think it's time to remind ourselves these are consoles are the OS will be console-centric, serving needs that we don't associate with PCs and smart-devices.
I don't fully understand the argument about MB/frame needing to be close to the amount of memory (if all frame buffers fit in esram). The only textures being read at their maximum resolution (and read entirely) are those very close to the camera. Other textures are read at some mipmap level below, and ONLY the data in the frustum are being read for the frame. That can't be more than a fraction of the main memory if you consider the amount of data needing to reside in memory at any moment. 2GB/frame would be HUGE for a console with only 5GB available, or even 8GB.
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