Nokia's Present & Future

[eastmen]

I'm not sure how it is in other countries but here in the united states from 2007 through 2012 I had not seen anyone with nokia phone. It wasn't until the windows 7 lumia series that i started to see any nokia phones and even then it be very very rare.

Megoo and symbian was never going to catch on in the states. In 2007/8 nokia was in the postion that blackberry finds itself in now. They have phones a smaller and smaller group of people who want and there are no life boats. Every day more people jump ship.

Andriod wouldn't have worked , just look at motorolla and espcially HTC . Nokia would have entered a crowded market and phones like the one x , galaxy s3 and viper would have stolen all their thunder.

 

[Mize]

eastmen...can you explain why Meego wouldn't have worked? You conclude it somehow so I'd just like to understand how you got there.

You do realize only one Meego phone was ever released, that it sold very well in the markets were available, that it was Qt based so its app base grew incredibly fast (and is still growing in spite of all things), that it was never launched in the US. How you can conclude it wouldn't ever catch on is something I'm really interested in.

As for Nokia in those years, they OWNED Asia and Europe. Pre iPhone, Symbian was king in most of the world while RIM, Palm and Windows mobile duked it out in the US.

Then to presume that Nokia couldn't take the fight to HTC and Samsung is going a stretch further. You don't think a form-factor like the Lumia 900 with a dual-core S4 running ICS would sell? I think you're wrong. The only reason the Lumia couldn't have that kind of processing power is WP7.

Anyway, love to know how you are so certain about such things.

 

[Mize]

Just for reference check out n9-app.com to see how many quality apps were and are being created for a phone (only one) that was released dead.

I have an N9 and I use it regularly. Certainly I use my Galaxy S3 more lately, but the N9 is a great phone that would have been a great start to a competitive player.

 

[french toast]

Yea exactly...remember elop put the stopprs on the n9 Christmas 2010!! As evidenced by its last gen omap 3630 when it launched mid 2011...just imagine if it hear launched on time with full world wide availability and marketing support...

Or just imagine if they had put the camera module from the n8 into it with an omap 4430??...it would have trembled sales just with the hardware alone...

 

[eastmen]

eastmen...can you explain why Meego wouldn't have worked? You conclude it somehow so I'd just like to understand how you got there.

You do realize only one Meego phone was ever released, that it sold very well in the markets were available, that it was Qt based so its app base grew incredibly fast (and is still growing in spite of all things), that it was never launched in the US. How you can conclude it wouldn't ever catch on is something I'm really interested in.

As for Nokia in those years, they OWNED Asia and Europe. Pre iPhone, Symbian was king in most of the world while RIM, Palm and Windows mobile duked it out in the US.

Then to presume that Nokia couldn't take the fight to HTC and Samsung is going a stretch further. You don't think a form-factor like the Lumia 900 with a dual-core S4 running ICS would sell? I think you're wrong. The only reason the Lumia couldn't have that kind of processing power is WP7.

Anyway, love to know how you are so certain about such things.

I'm only talking about in the usa and its lack of mind share. Nokia might as well have been a dead brand. Ask people what meego is and they'd tell you a pokemon . Nokia had no clout left here and they needed a large brand to even enter the market. They found that with windows.


Think about a brand no one cares about and what it would take to get people to buy that brand or shop in those stores again . I guess you can look at A&P in the united states, it has lingered along in bankruptcy and just continues to close stores , no matter how they try to reinvent themselves no one cares. It would be the same with nokia going at it alone. They would simply be another company trying to compete with Iphone and Andriod and it would not end well for nokia here in the states.

 

[Mize]

You realize that Apple is a comeback brand, right?

So was nintendo...Marvel...Volkswagen...Lego...etc.

So much for that theory.

 

[wco81]

Sounds like MS got Elop to kill a potential competitor, so that WP had a better chance to emerge as the third option to iOS and Android.

 

[french toast]

Elop unleashes his grand vision for microkia..
" CEO Stephen Elop revealing that the company’s “aim is to become the ‘Where?” company.” Just as Google became the go-to place for “What?” and Facebook for “Who?”,"

http://www.slashgear.com/nokias-elop-our-aim-is-to-become-the-where-company-19239317/

Are you excited yet....

 

[Florin]

Where is my WP8 upgrade?
Where do we dump these unsold Lumias?
Where in China did they ship my job?
Where does this Elop guy live?
Where can I buy tar and feathers?
Where can I get more armed security guards real quick?

Yeah that's just perfect. I have new found respect for the man.

 

[tuna]

I'm only talking about in the usa and its lack of mind share. Nokia might as well have been a dead brand. Ask people what meego is and they'd tell you a pokemon . Nokia had no clout left here and they needed a large brand to even enter the market. They found that with windows.

The thing is, the US phone market is not that big compared to others (such as the china market). If Nokia loses in the US but wins everywhere else, Nokia wins.

 

[wco81]

There were some cheap Nokia clamshells of all types.

Nokia smart phones were for those willing to pay hundreds to import.

 

[Mize]

The thing is, the US phone market is not that big compared to others (such as the china market). If Nokia loses in the US but wins everywhere else, Nokia wins.

thing is...Nokia was #1 in China pre Elop...no longer.

 

[eastmen]

You realize that Apple is a comeback brand, right?

So was nintendo...Marvel...Volkswagen...Lego...etc.

So much for that theory.

I'm not sure your using the best examples for your point


Apple has never come back in home pcs. So while the brand may be strong again it never regained its original market power. So mabye nokia should follow apple and make something besides cell phones ?


Nintendo never really went anywhere and its questionable if they have had greater sucess in recent years. While the wii might have been an increase in user base from the gamecube , the 3ds is not doing well and the wii has fallen off a cliff. Perhaps this would have been nokia's fate if they stayed with meego/symbian

Marvel was bought by disney and still its comic sales are a fraction of what they were at the height, they like apple have been reinvented and while apple still makes its original core product like marvel releases comic books , marvel's sucess is largely now in the movie busniess . Perhaps MS buying nokia would fit this example better than what you want to use it as .

I'm not exactly sure where VW was , they've been stable for as long as i can remember back into the 90s when I was getting into cars. Same with lego , when did that brand go away ? I a child of the early 80s grew up with lego's , my litle cousin a child of the 90s grew up with lego's and some of my oldest cousins who had children would buy them lego's in the 00s and now finally my niece and nephew have lego's in the teens.

 

[eastmen]

The thing is, the US phone market is not that big compared to others (such as the china market). If Nokia loses in the US but wins everywhere else, Nokia wins.

Does it ? What are the margin diffrences per teritory ?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Does it ? What are the margin diffrences per teritory ?

I read somewhere that the US' investment in smartphones is something like 14% of the "world cake". That's huge, but it's obviously not worth as much as China's.

What the US brings is a lot of mindshare. But mindshare alone doesn't pay salaries.

 

[Mize]

eastmen, google is your friend.

Apple is the third largest seller of PCs with about 10-12% of the global market. That was once below 2%.

VW went from a dominant US player in the lat 60s and 70s to nearly nothing in the US (< 50,000 cars) before rebounding on the coat tails of the new rabbit.

Yes, Marvel is largely movies, not comics, and Apples is largely phones and iPads, but we're talking about Nokia reinventing itself in *smartphones* not *feature phones* and the markets are entirely distinct.

Your argument is that a brand must have mind share to succeed (cart/horse) and it's simply wrong.
Lincoln cars came back. Old Spice is kicking ass after we all forgot it existed.

All it takes is a combination of marketing and follow-through to bring these old brands back from the dead - and Nokia's brand wasn't dead.

Meego, by the way for those of you who can sit at your keyboards typing things about it though you've never used it, is a very nice OS. Much more intuitive than Android and with a real OS underneath for those who like to tweak. Just browse that page again (or for the first time) and realize that a stillborn phone spawned those apps. They're are some truly kick ass apps there. Imagine what might have been had that baby not been aborted by Elop...innovation lost.

 

[french toast]

eastmen, google is your friend.

Apple is the third largest seller of PCs with about 10-12% of the global market. That was once below 2%.

VW went from a dominant US player in the lat 60s and 70s to nearly nothing in the US (< 50,000 cars) before rebounding on the coat tails of the new rabbit.

Yes, Marvel is largely movies, not comics, and Apples is largely phones and iPads, but we're talking about Nokia reinventing itself in *smartphones* not *feature phones* and the markets are entirely distinct.

Your argument is that a brand must have mind share to succeed (cart/horse) and it's simply wrong.
Lincoln cars came back. Old Spice is kicking ass after we all forgot it existed.

All it takes is a combination of marketing and follow-through to bring these old brands back from the dead - and Nokia's brand wasn't dead.

Meego, by the way for those of you who can sit at your keyboards typing things about it though you've never used it, is a very nice OS. Much more intuitive than Android and with a real OS underneath for those who like to tweak. Just browse that page again (or for the first time) and realize that a stillborn phone spawned those apps. They're are some truly kick ass apps there. Imagine what might have been had that baby not been aborted by Elop...innovation lost.

With a yearly update cadence aka android ...indeed...

 

[Ike Turner]

eastmen, google is your friend.

Apple is the third largest seller of PCs with about 10-12% of the global market. .

Google isn't your friend apparently...

Apple is estimated to be the third PC vendor in Q2 2012 with 11% in the US only. Apple isn't even in the top five worldwide and its WW PC market share is still below 5%.

 

[Mize]

Google isn't your friend apparently...

Apple is estimated to be the third PC vendor in Q2 2012 with 11% in the US only. Apple isn't even in the top five worldwide and its WW PC market share is still below 5%.

touche, but my point stands...they dropped to <2% of the US market and now are back at 11%

 

[Ike Turner]

touche, but my point stands...they dropped to <2% of the US market and now are back at 11%

True. It should also be pointed out that most of the units sold are laptops. The iMacs are going the way of the dodo (same for other vendors which are for the most part now selling vastly more laptops/ultra portables than desktop pcs.)