You don't own a PS3. Why?

You don't own a PS3. Why?

  • I'm just not interested in this console.

    Votes: 37 44.6%
  • Its too expensive / I'm waiting for a price cut.

    Votes: 27 32.5%
  • Coz teh PS3 haz no gamez, lol.

    Votes: 4 4.8%
  • I hate Sony's PRs.

    Votes: 3 3.6%
  • Other.

    Votes: 12 14.5%

  • Total voters
    83
Like I said, when you define the criteria solely to the 360's strengths the decision looks easy. Of course that just shows your bias. You could easily start looking at other criteria where the 360 is weaker.

Are you interested in HD movies?
Are you concerned with the sound of your media components?
Are you concerned with reliability?
Are you going to play online? Do you mind additional cost?
Do you game on a PC too?

The criteria I was defining was for the masses, those that don't fall into specific bins. They just want to play. Some people don't want a swiss army knife for a console, they just want to play games. For those people if you look at it objectively it's an extremely easy choice. When my adorable niece asks me what to get, she falls into that category. She wants a box that plugs into a tv that plays games. It's impossible for me to recommend anything other than a 360 for that today, which is what I suggested she get. (Mind you, her immense adorableness prompted me to just go buy her one later that same day). Now if she said in her squeaky voice "I want Little Big Planet", then I'd have bought her a PS3. But she didn't, because she is one of the millions that asks that time honored generic question of "I want to play games, what do I buy?". Very easy answer to that today.

That's why I also mention demos because they are part of just playing games. I skip all the above points you mention because those fall into the more subjective realm. For example take your "Are you interested in HD movies?" line. If someone really wants HD movies on optical disc, then they will and/or have already gone PS3. If they want HD movies streamed then they will and/or have gone 360. There is no clear cut choice there, it's subjective. I'm not into streaming, I want the optical disc so for me it's PS3 for hd movies. For many of my friends they have no interest in having discs anymore, so they only stream, I see them on Netflix on my friends list every night. Subjective, so I skip it.

Same with your "Are you concerned with reliability?" statement. There is no proof to suggest that the current builds of either machine are different in reliability. What is different though is warranty. My 360 got fixed free, my PS3 required a $150 fee when the bluray drive died. Which is better, free repair or paid repair? But I skipped that because again it would lead to a million subjective posts from people that still believe the 360 has a 127% failure rate while the PS3 actually hatches new PS3's over time.

Or I can take -tkf-'s "cheap harddrive upgrade to support it" comment and make it subjective as well. I *hate* the PS3 setup for the harddrive, it is horrible for me. Can you upgrade it? Sure. Can I pop it off and bring it to my upstairs 360, friends house 360, family members 360, etc? No! It's screwed in there permanently making it a pain in the ass to bring my downloaded games, saves, etc everywhere with me. When I have family sleeping over I pop the hdd off the downstairs 360 and pop it on the one in my bedroom, and I can play everything there. Same with going to a friends place. I could argue that the easily removable nature of the 360 hdd makes it 10x better than the PS3's setup. But I didn't in my initial post, again because it's subjective. For some people having a 500gb hdd fused into the machine is what is most important. For others it's transportability.

Etc, etc, etc. I could counter argue all the subjective points mentioned, like that the PS3 supposedly has better and more varied exclusives (certainly not even close to true in my book) but I'll skip it. What is not subjective is the multi plat games. Multi plats are better on 360, attach rates are high, most purchases are multi plat games, therefore you can get better versions of the same games on the cheaper box. That is not subjective because we are talking about the same games. Now I could have initially made it subjective by stating why I feel multi plats will forever be better on 360 for a variety of tech reasons. But I skipped that figuring it's still subjective, I'll just stick with the basics, the games.
 
But she didn't, because she is one of the millions that asks that time honored generic question of "I want to play games, what do I buy?". Very easy answer to that today.
Hmmm. Wouldn't a good recommendation be to show the games available on the different systems and let her pick? How did you know she wouldn't enjoy Wiimote more than the XB360 controller? How did you know she doesn't care for LBP? Did she know these exist?

I don't think any device serves a 'no brainer' option these days. Even PS3 as a 'no brainer' for people wanting BluRay is no longer valid. And Wii's motion is going to lose its uniqueness next year. The only real criteria are the price and the library+services. And an informed choice needs to consider these aspects. It's still subjective, despite your best endevours to find an objective deciding factor!
 
What is not subjective is the multi plat games. Multi plats are better on 360, attach rates are high, most purchases are multi plat games, therefore you can get better versions of the same games on the cheaper box. That is not subjective because we are talking about the same games.

It's subjective really. Let's say there's a game that's essentially the same, but it's got 2 x MSAA on system A, while QAA on system B. The game probably runs a bit smoother on the system A as well. Now, the game provides online multiplayer which you'd have to pay monthly for the system A where it's totally free on the system B.

Can you really call it a better version on the system A because it's got better AA?

There's even a better alternative called PC, where you can not only have AA advantage, but you can boost double the res and double the frame rate. The game's cheaper too with free online.

In your theory, PC should be the undiputed king, but is that really the case? ;)


360 is selling better, not because it's got better multi-platform games. In fact, most the average buyers would think the opposite, since PS3's the newer and supposedly the more powerful machine.

360 is selling better, because it's got bigger library of cheaper games and because it's got Halo and Gears, two of the most popular game in this console generation that's exclusive to the 360 which is something Sony has yet failed to obtain.
 
What is not subjective is the multi plat games. Multi plats are better on 360, attach rates are high, most purchases are multi plat games, therefore you can get better versions of the same games on the cheaper box. That is not subjective because we are talking about the same games.

No, you misunderstand. There are facts in what you're saying. Those are true things. But the value given between more AA or more constant framerate, is that more important than, say, controller preference? The difference between the 360 and PS3 controllers is vast and immediately noticeable. The other... well, GTA4 should be the example, always. The 360, bizarre texturing bug notwithstanding, had the edge on AA, FPS and resolution. You still had a fair share of people saying that the PS3's lighting was better, which was just a result of Houser's comments and it being more orange.

The value people ascribe to those facts is what's subjective. Maybe, for some people, paying for Live! rankles them so much that they'd actually be willing to pay $100 more for a PS3 with mostly inferior 3rd-party games. Maybe it's justified (say a household with several gamers who want to play online and don't want to share accounts) or maybe it's just because they're dirty hippies.
 
The criteria I was defining was for the masses, those that don't fall into specific bins.

No, they are your criteria used to convince people to your choices. I work in an engineering dept with about seven PS3 owners and zero 360 owners. Some people just don't care about cross-platform pixel counts. Some people don't put $100 above all other considerations.

If you are a 16 year old playing games online four hours a day and don't care about BD and all your friends are on Live, then yes it's an easy choice! Of course there are a variety of demographics, this is why a $250 SD Wii is selling better than your beloved $199 360.

Launch aligned the PS3 and 360 are selling very similar to one another (despite the cost difference), some one must not know that the choice is obvious.
 
Hmmm. Wouldn't a good recommendation be to show the games available on the different systems and let her pick? How did you know she wouldn't enjoy Wiimote more than the XB360 controller? How did you know she doesn't care for LBP? Did she know these exist?
...
Even PS3 as a 'no brainer' for people wanting BluRay is no longer valid.

They already have a Wii, after all it's the standard "gift for little girls into games". My hats off to Nintendo on that world wide brain washing success :) She has seen LBP and other games, it's not hard to see them on commercials, in stores, game cafe's, etc. It's just that there is so much out there that the poor thing was confused on what to get. So I took care of her :)

Not sure I agree on your blu-ray comment either, I don't trust stand alone blu-ray players. Even the mighty Oppo is now having problem playing a new blu-ray movie, I forget the name of it. Given the nature of the blu-ray spec and all it's complexitude, there is no way I can recommend any standalone to a friend. Plus, as use of bd-j gets more complex, I simply don't trust current players to be able to run them quickly enough to give a nice user experience, whereas the PS3 clearly has enough grunt for whatever they throw at it. Personally I steer anyone that asks me about bu-ray players to the PS3. If they can't afford it, then I tell them to stick with DVD until they can afford a PS3. The only alternative in my mind is the PC, which I'm considering now as well.


It's subjective really. Let's say there's a game that's essentially the same, but it's got 2 x MSAA on system A, while QAA on system B. The game probably runs a bit smoother on the system A as well. Now, the game provides online multiplayer which you'd have to pay monthly for the system A where it's totally free on the system B.

Can you really call it a better version on the system A because it's got better AA?

There's even a better alternative called PC, where you can not only have AA advantage, but you can boost double the res and double the frame rate. The game's cheaper too with free online.

In your theory, PC should be the undiputed king, but is that really the case? ;)

I purposely omitted online partly because it's subjective, but also because I wanted to save Shifty from having to spend hours thread pruning. That's because if you include online then it's even more clearly a no brainer. XBLive is so far beyond PSN in usability, features, feel of a community, etc. Sorry but PSN is junk to me in comparison, it's not in the same league as XBLive, it's not even the same sport. If online is a must the the 360 is the most obvious choice ever made to me especially if you have friends. Subjective? Sure is, but hey you asked so there you go. I don't want to debate it either, I'm sure others adore PSN, but it's stone age to me. XBLive's cost is mostly moot as consumers hate the big up front purchases of big bucks, yet are very receptive to incremental fees over time, as the cell phone providers have proven very well. Plus it's so easy to renew live for cheap, I've never paid for than $30/year for it. Its a bargain for a proper online community. Sorry Shifty :)

I don't count the PC, it's rare that PC's are hooked up on the tv in the family room anyways.


No, you misunderstand. There are facts in what you're saying. Those are true things. But the value given between more AA or more constant framerate, is that more important than, say, controller preference? The difference between the 360 and PS3 controllers is vast and immediately noticeable. The other... well, GTA4 should be the example, always. The 360, bizarre texturing bug notwithstanding, had the edge on AA, FPS and resolution. You still had a fair share of people saying that the PS3's lighting was better, which was just a result of Houser's comments and it being more orange.

The value people ascribe to those facts is what's subjective. Maybe, for some people, paying for Live! rankles them so much that they'd actually be willing to pay $100 more for a PS3 with mostly inferior 3rd-party games. Maybe it's justified (say a household with several gamers who want to play online and don't want to share accounts) or maybe it's just because they're dirty hippies.

If people love a controller that much, then buy the console because of it, that's fine. And again, you don't need online to enjoy games, there are millions that will never use online. But if you want online I stand by by my comments that you should avoid PSN and go Live. I'm sure some people want everything free, and that some would sooner pick a free used cigarette butt off the ground and smoke that instead of paying for a pack, but that's their problem. If you have friends and want an online community, XBLive is it, the choice has never been more obvious. I know that from what I read here, that in Europe you guys don't really get XBLive, you get some stripped down watered down version, or at least that's what I've heard claimed. So maybe in Europe XBLive is crappy, I don't know. But in the US where we get the full deal, nothing compares.

GTA4 comments were fanboyism, simple as that. There is no way someone can play both versions of that game on their tv and pick the PS3 one with a straight face. I conducted my own experiments at work, and it's very easy to make a PS3 fanboy pick the 360 versions of games if they think they are watching the PS3 version, one just has to lie a bit and the results are all so clear :) That's why I don't bother participating in those types of threads here anymore, the outcome is 100% predictable.
 
DrJay24 said:
No, they are your criteria used to convince people to your choices. I work in an engineering dept with about seven PS3 owners and zero 360 owners. Some people just don't care about cross-platform pixel counts. Some people don't put $100 above all other considerations.

If people want to spend $100 or $200 to play worse versions of games then that's their prerogative. But there is no way in hell I would ever recommend that myself, certainly not to friends or family.

DrJay24 said:
If you are a 16 year old playing games online four hours a day and don't care about BD and all your friends are on Live, then yes it's an easy choice! Of course there are a variety of demographics, this is why a $250 SD Wii is selling better than your beloved $199 360.

Wii won because they hit a totally untapped market, that's it. It has nothing to do with this thread though.

DrJay24 said:
Launch aligned the PS3 and 360 are selling very similar to one another (despite the cost difference), some one must not know that the choice is obvious.

Sure, I've gone to peoples homes, saw a PS3, saw a shelf of multi plat titles, then broke the news to them that they spent twice as much for worse games. The result is always the same, mostly disbelief. It doesn't take much to set them straight though, invite them to a 360 party and show them the same games. Then they feel like total schmucks :) People just don't know. Believe it or not, many still actually think the PS3 is the more powerful machine, a testament to a high price, large and heavy machine, and good marketing I suppose. Either way, people are misinformed and get duped into buying what they think is the best version of games every day. It's nothing new, people overpay based on brand all the time. It's not indicative of anything other than misinformation. It's their loss, but as long as they keep buying games I'm happy :)
 
GTA4 comments were fanboyism, simple as that. There is no way someone can play both versions of that game on their tv and pick the PS3 one with a straight face. I conducted my own experiments at work, and it's very easy to make a PS3 fanboy pick the 360 versions of games if they think they are watching the PS3 version, one just has to lie a bit and the results are all so clear :) That's why I don't bother participating in those types of threads here anymore, the outcome is 100% predictable.

I've played both versions, spent more than 10 hours on each, and I do think the PS3 version looks better. I'm no fanboy, nor those reviewers at IGN, Gamespot etc are.
 
It's a joke to compare the PS3 with the iphone.

Yeah, it wouldn't be fair to the iphone. LOL. Look at the numbers. Yes, the Iphone seems to do large numbers (~4 million in Q1,2009) but the market for smartphones is much larger than consoles (over 36 million smartphones were sold in Q1,2009).

Iphones increased sales are due to Apple price dropping ($200 price cut two months in). A 8 Gb iphone costed $599 at launch, but now you can get the 8 Gb Iphone for $99 with sign up. It took the Iphone around 74 days to sell 1 million units at its original prices, the PS3 did it in about 42.

If the iphone had a similar price reduction curve as the PS3, I doubt there would be more iphones than PS3 in the world today. In reality there isn't that many more iphones in the world than there are PS3 as it stand right now.
 
Yeah, it wouldn't be fair to the iphone. LOL. Look at the numbers. Yes, the Iphone seems to do large numbers (~4 million in Q1,2009) but the market for smartphones is much larger than consoles (over 36 million smartphones were sold in Q1,2009).

Iphones increased sales are due to Apple price dropping ($200 price cut two months in). A 8 Gb iphone costed $599 at launch, but now you can get the 8 Gb Iphone for $99 with sign up. It took the Iphone around 74 days to sell 1 million units at its original prices, the PS3 did it in about 42.

If the iphone had a similar price reduction curve as the PS3, I doubt there would be more iphones than PS3 in the world today. In reality there isn't that many more iphones in the world than there are PS3 as it stand right now.

I'm not sure what you're lol'ing.

I already mentioned the need for a price cut on the iphone and how different the pricing land scape is, in comparison. The PS3 was launched in Japan and US in Nov 2006. The iphone was launched in July 2007. The iphone was only launced in the US and came with a mandatory 2year contract with one carrier. This was and is a sticking point for many US consumer to this day. The iphone Euro launch was slowly trickled out while the PS3 was launched throughout most European markets simultaneously. Hell, the Japan launch for the iphone was in July 2008! So if there "isn't many more iphones in the world than there are PS3" but clearly in less time the iphone sold more and actually brought profits for apple, how exactly is it that the comparison isn't fair for the iphone?

The iphone is a very successful venture for Apple. The PS3 is the antithesis of success. Like I said, no comparison.
 
If people want to spend $100 or $200 to play worse versions of games then that's their prerogative. But there is no way in hell I would ever recommend that myself, certainly not to friends or family.


I recommend PS3 to my friends and family, because..

- it's got the games with the best graphics
- it's got more exclusives
- free online
- you can watch Bluray
- more reliable as a machine

I do recommend them 360 if they're

- not willing to spend too much money (more cheaper games available on the 360)
- interested in Halo
- not interested in playing online
 
If people want to spend $100 or $200 to play worse versions of games then that's their prerogative. But there is no way in hell I would ever recommend that myself, certainly not to friends or family.

You are still stuck on talking points. Maybe you are too far removed from J6P to see the point.



Wii won because they hit a totally untapped market, that's it. It has nothing to do with this thread though.

And maybe the PS3 has it's own untapped market? May I suggest the working adult who enjoys HD movies and games? You cannot throw out evidence just because it leads to conclusions you don't like. The 360 is losing to an overclocked GC despite the worse cross platform games, OMG!



Sure, I've gone to peoples homes, saw a PS3, saw a shelf of multi plat titles, then broke the news to them that they spent twice as much for worse games. The result is always the same, mostly disbelief. ...
)

Did you do they math? Was their choice a $399 PS3 vs a stripped down $199 360? really? Are you also sure they would notice these differences or were you just being the know-it-all industry insider pushing his personal preferences?
 
If people want to spend $100 or $200 to play worse versions of games then that's their prerogative. But there is no way in hell I would ever recommend that myself, certainly not to friends or family.



Wii won because they hit a totally untapped market, that's it. It has nothing to do with this thread though.



Sure, I've gone to peoples homes, saw a PS3, saw a shelf of multi plat titles, then broke the news to them that they spent twice as much for worse games. The result is always the same, mostly disbelief. It doesn't take much to set them straight though, invite them to a 360 party and show them the same games. Then they feel like total schmucks :) People just don't know. Believe it or not, many still actually think the PS3 is the more powerful machine, a testament to a high price, large and heavy machine, and good marketing I suppose. Either way, people are misinformed and get duped into buying what they think is the best version of games every day. It's nothing new, people overpay based on brand all the time. It's not indicative of anything other than misinformation. It's their loss, but as long as they keep buying games I'm happy :)


So you ridicule them because they own a ps3? The difference of multiplats is so small you wouldn't be able to see the difference unless they are side by side.

The ps3 is a more powerful machine...a gaming machine maybe not.
 
If people love a controller that much, then buy the console because of it, that's fine. And again, you don't need online to enjoy games, there are millions that will never use online. But if you want online I stand by by my comments that you should avoid PSN and go Live. I'm sure some people want everything free, and that some would sooner pick a free used cigarette butt off the ground and smoke that instead of paying for a pack, but that's their problem. If you have friends and want an online community, XBLive is it, the choice has never been more obvious. I know that from what I read here, that in Europe you guys don't really get XBLive, you get some stripped down watered down version, or at least that's what I've heard claimed. So maybe in Europe XBLive is crappy, I don't know. But in the US where we get the full deal, nothing compares.

You're missing the point. I'm not actually arguing value, I'm saying that any discussions of value are subjective because, and this is tkf's or DrJay's argument, you can look at value under any lens. You're choosing to focus on the things that make the 360 look good while ignoring those that favor the PS3. And that's fine. But that's not the last word on value. There is no last word on value.

You are being hyperbolic on the comparative quality between PSN and XBL, but that's neither here nor there. I don't think that it's reasonable to argue that for a single user, at $100 a PS3 is worth more than a 360, even paying for Live! My example was one for a worst-case scenario, a case in which this isn't always true: a house where several members play the console and play online. Under Live!, that's a Gold subscription for all of them. For PSN, the value doesn't change. But it's not even that likely a scenario outside of maybe a college dorm.

GTA4 comments were fanboyism, simple as that. There is no way someone can play both versions of that game on their tv and pick the PS3 one with a straight face. I conducted my own experiments at work, and it's very easy to make a PS3 fanboy pick the 360 versions of games if they think they are watching the PS3 version, one just has to lie a bit and the results are all so clear :) That's why I don't bother participating in those types of threads here anymore, the outcome is 100% predictable.

Again, you're missing the point and misremembering -- the people who said this aren't fanboys (well, not all of them), they just can't tell. Reviewers, fans hear what Houser says, they see some differences, they assume that something fancy is being done because of 'Cell' or 'Blu-Ray'.

But that's missing the point, too. The point is it doesn't matter. Most people won't play both versions. For every objective metric, the PS3 version comes last, sometimes even by a dramatic margin. And still reviewers and 'gamerati' can't see it -- or worse, a slight 'artistic' change (a light color change) trumps all technical differences! Hell, MazingerDude liked the PS3 version better and as a pixel-counter and IQ-nitpicker he's got a better eye than 99% of even PITA B3Ders. Even Quaz51, at first, suspected that the PS3 version was doing something special! That's what your 'superior version' argument boils down to: nothing important. As I said, it's an insignificant difference compared to controller preference, free online or, say, whichever system your friends use the most.
 
I've played both versions, spent more than 10 hours on each, and I do think the PS3 version looks better. I'm no fanboy, nor those reviewers at IGN, Gamespot etc are.

While I respect your point of view, along with understanding that many people prefer the "softer" or "blurrier" look of many PS3 titles, the framerate of GTA4 on the PS3 was so bad that the title often became unbearable to play for me.

I know the difference between the PS3 and 360 versions is only in the region of 20%, but a 20% worse framerate in Modern Warfare then the 60fps the 360 achieves is barely noticable. But the 20% worse framerate than the 28-30fps that GTA4 ran at on the 360 was very, very noticable to me.
 
I'm not sure what you're lol'ing.

I already mentioned the need for a price cut on the iphone and how different the pricing land scape is, in comparison. The PS3 was launched in Japan and US in Nov 2006. The iphone was launched in July 2007. The iphone was only launced in the US and came with a mandatory 2year contract with one carrier. This was and is a sticking point for many US consumer to this day. The iphone Euro launch was slowly trickled out while the PS3 was launched throughout most European markets simultaneously. Hell, the Japan launch for the iphone was in July 2008! So if there "isn't many more iphones in the world than there are PS3" but clearly in less time the iphone sold more and actually brought profits for apple, how exactly is it that the comparison isn't fair for the iphone?

The iphone is a very successful venture for Apple. The PS3 is the antithesis of success. Like I said, no comparison.

Im not disagreeing with any of your points. Im just laughing out loud because someone posted "It's got nothing to with American mentality, remember people here bought tons of iPhones at $600 a pop on top of it's $100 or so monthly fee. People will buy something if they deem it has value to them".
In reality, the PS3 did a much better job at that price point then the iphone ever did. The iphone sales have been driven by a good product with huge profit margins, a very successful and huge marketing campaign and a pricing strategy that put the iphone in the mainstream pricing category rather quickly.

My point is given all of Apples success, in terms of actual sales those sales numbers wouldn't have been impressive for a console. Imagine if the PS3 with its $600 price managed to profitably cut its price to $199 in 2 years times and still only managed ~20 million consoles sold over that time period.
 
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I recommend PS3 to my friends and family, because..

- it's got the games with the best graphics
- it's got more exclusives
- free online
- you can watch Bluray
- more reliable as a machine

I do recommend them 360 if they're

- not willing to spend too much money (more cheaper games available on the 360)
- interested in Halo
- not interested in playing online

I think you should add to the 360 list that:

-if they are really interested in playing online and don't think that 3 bucks a month will make them go bankrupt.

Those 3 bucks will get you a pretty good online play + some other benefits
aswell. I personally don't care about the cost that much not the Live fee or the higher PS3 entry price and if I'm recommending a system to someone it mostly boils down to whether the subject is interested in Blu-ray movies or not.

If you divide the 100-200$ difference in entry price between the years of usage it amounts to insignificant amount and so does the yearly Live fee, if you spend lot's of time in Live it becomes pretty cheap entertainment and who really goes bankrupt for paying 30-50$ in a year for it... If one does, then he shouldn't have bought a console in the first place.
 
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While I respect your point of view, along with understanding that many people prefer the "softer" or "blurrier" look of many PS3 titles, the framerate of GTA4 on the PS3 was so bad that the title often became unbearable to play for me.

I know the difference between the PS3 and 360 versions is only in the region of 20%, but a 20% worse framerate in Modern Warfare then the 60fps the 360 achieves is barely noticable. But the 20% worse framerate than the 28-30fps that GTA4 ran at on the 360 was very, very noticable to me.


Well, I was just talking about the IQ, not its performance. When it comes to the performance, while it's clearly running smoother on the 360, the PS3 version is completely v-synced with absolutely no screen tearing, while the 360 version tears occationally. I'm more keen to screen tearing than a slightly better frame rate. At least, the game was running at steady frame rate, certainly far better than the previous PS2 releases, and in a GTA game, that's just good enough for me.

But when it comes to the overall IQ, I think the PS3 is better, because it's got better color scheme, and better lighting. Also the dithering textures and shadows make the 360's IQ feel somewhat shallow at times. That's just my opinion, and if you do think otherwise, I'm not here to tell you're a fanboy. The 360 version does have its own advantages, for one it's definitely got cleaner IQ overall. If that's your preference, then that's your preference. ;)
 
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