"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers
- Thread starter Farid
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Not directly related to your comment but, i see the term 'ps2 graphics' being used in many discussions, always referring to how bad a games particular graphics or details are. It's this way around the globe and all forums. I know the PS2 was the least powerhouse regarding the 6th gen, bar the DC, but was it that bad.... Why not 'PSX' graphics or 'PS3' graphics, or just 'Voodoo 2' graphics?
I think it's more of a compliment, actually, since it's like regarding the PS2 as the most significant console of its gen worth mentioning when a comparison arises.
EsppiraK
Newcomer
Exactly
Yeah nice, didn't think of it in that way lol
Probably the only console worth remembering from the 6th gens, it had a rather impressive and huge library.Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
As well as being the most significant console of its generation, that generation was the first to be able to convincingly render 3D graphics. Sure, the PS1, N64, and Saturn all had a crack at 3D, but none of them was great at it.
Great 3D games came regardless (MGS, Goldeneye 64, FFVII,) but graphically, it was visibly a transitional generation. I get the same feeling with PSVR.
Great 3D games came regardless (MGS, Goldeneye 64, FFVII,) but graphically, it was visibly a transitional generation. I get the same feeling with PSVR.
Interesting shots and polygon counts for the Dreamcast games. Having played a lot of PS2 games recently, I must say the jump in polygon complexity is staggering, more than I anticipated. I guess the Dreamcast just hit at the wrong time, to me a lot of the games for that system seem to be moderately higher polygon counts from PlayStation level games. Perhaps the tools and talent were not quite up to speed in late 98 to early 2000? Seems that Dreamcast had a few outliers that pushed the 1 million mark, but not many? Still a great machine and died too soon.
Just started playing Need for Speed Most Wanted on the PS2, that must be pushing a massive amount of polys, is there a chance anyone has that and an emulator that can read the vert amounts on that?
Just started playing Need for Speed Most Wanted on the PS2, that must be pushing a massive amount of polys, is there a chance anyone has that and an emulator that can read the vert amounts on that?
Rootax
Veteran
In a weird way, It felt like voodoo 5 vs geforce 256/ 2. No T&L was a big miss in some games. PowerVR Series 2 was very good, but it seems that the SH-4 was not enough to feed it with more polys ? Anyway, I still have a dreamcast
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Could just be old tools and lack of designing art styles, i mean the dc didnt have the same big pool of devs working on it compared to the ps1 and ps2.If emulators are meant to be believed quite a few hit far beyond the 1mpps. I tooks a few comparative shots here. Maybe the dc cant keep up on the same terms as the ps2 but when pushed on its merits it seems do just fine.
Star wars episode 1: Jedi power battles Dreamcast = 43,014 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.58 mpps
Metal gear solid 2 prologue : 24,904 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5mpps
Virtua Fighter 4: 40,771 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.4mpps
Dead or Alive 2 dreamcast = 47,371 tris per frame @ 60 fps = 2.8 million polygons per second.
DoA Paradise psp = 58,523 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.75 million polygons per second.
Cloofoofoo
Regular
I guess a short part 2 :
Yakuza(the emu runs it double framerate) :
35,949 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.07 million polygons per second
Shenmue 2:46,507 tris per frame x 30fps = 1.3 mpps
Yakuza(the emu runs it double framerate) :
35,949 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.07 million polygons per second
Shenmue 2:46,507 tris per frame x 30fps = 1.3 mpps
Cloofoofoo
Regular
To be honest sometimes its just the art style. For example in yakuza kazama kiryu is extremly detailed but the people aorund him are like jet set radio polygon counts it just they never get close to the camera, while in shenmue polygon count seems to be distributed everywhere. The ps2 is more consistent with its polygon count though, the dreamcast spikes from very low to extremely high. Also the ps2 seems to have more light sources and then it has its framebuffer effects. Iam pretty sure this all impacts the way things look, in no way iam saying the dc is better. Then coupled with the fact alot of dreamcast games looked like they struggled with the modeling software.
An example of how low the people are in quality.: 36,028 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.08 mpp
An example how shitty the art can be on the dreamcast despite high polygon counts:49,563 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.4 million polygons per second
Thats strange. I wonder why they struggled. Arent games typically modeled in any software of choice and then imported?
The majority of DC games look blocky. It makes you wonder since the DC and it's tools were made to make development easier whereas the PS2 was the console where developers struggled
The majority of DC games look blocky. It makes you wonder since the DC and it's tools were made to make development easier whereas the PS2 was the console where developers struggled
Cloofoofoo
Regular
I meant maybe it took a while to see what didnt work and what did when it came to densing up models from ps1 transition to dc/ps2 and the dc just didnt live long enough to reap the benefits.Not to mentions companies that got it right from the get-go like square , konami and a few others refused to pour any meaningful resource on the dc at all. For example soul calibur 1 vs soul calibur psp/tekken psp
Soul calibur DC cervantes vs seigfried : 28,611 tris per frame x 60 fps =1.7 mpps
soul calibur broken destiny psp :Cervantes vs yoshimitsu = 16,845 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1mpps
Tekken5 PSP lei vs xaioyu = 17,231 x 60 fps = 1mpps
Though sometimes , like in resident evil 4 the ps2 does extreme amount of clipping. Heres the pc version(which is based on the ps2 version assets) vs ps2:
Pc captured everything in the scene nothing clipped:65,629 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.9 mpps
PS2 version : 17,680 tris per frame x 30 fps = 530K pps
Panino Manino
Newcomer
DOA 2 is a beautiful game, but almost 3 million polygons is crazy!
Cloofoofoo
Regular
OK, lets make it a 3 way comparison. Tekken tag tournament on ps2 vs dead or alive 2 dreamcast vs soul calibur 2 gamecube. In a japanese graphics book I have they mention soul calibur 2 does like 4,000 polygons per character( they showed yoshimitsu at 4,300 polygons) and the stages around 20,000 polygons. Surprisingly low , so lets see how close is that estimate.
tekken tag ps2 :39,850 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps
tekken tag :24,874 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5 mpps
Soul calibur 2(GameCube) : 35,667 x 60 fps = 2.1mpps.
Dead or alive 2 dreamcast : 39,402 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps
My initial observation is the DC triangle quality (lighting, shading) is way simpler, effectively looking like high-poly PS1 games.