"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Farid, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,270
    Likes Received:
    2,246
    Here's one low-poly effort from pre-production [all of this was thrown out], greybox experiments from Uncharted 4 Scottland stages by @thegreatbluebit:

    [​IMG]

    [IMO this looks like a shippable art for a modern indie game :D ]
     
    milk, Malo, jlippo and 2 others like this.
  2. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Not directly related to your comment but, i see the term 'ps2 graphics' being used in many discussions, always referring to how bad a games particular graphics or details are. It's this way around the globe and all forums. I know the PS2 was the least powerhouse regarding the 6th gen, bar the DC, but was it that bad.... Why not 'PSX' graphics or 'PS3' graphics, or just 'Voodoo 2' graphics?
     
  3. eloyc

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    I think it's more of a compliment, actually, since it's like regarding the PS2 as the most significant console of its gen worth mentioning when a comparison arises.
     
  4. EsppiraK

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    74
    Exactly
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  5. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Yeah nice, didn't think of it in that way lol :) Probably the only console worth remembering from the 6th gens, it had a rather impressive and huge library.
     
  6. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil my grapes.
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,617
    As well as being the most significant console of its generation, that generation was the first to be able to convincingly render 3D graphics. Sure, the PS1, N64, and Saturn all had a crack at 3D, but none of them was great at it.

    Great 3D games came regardless (MGS, Goldeneye 64, FFVII,) but graphically, it was visibly a transitional generation. I get the same feeling with PSVR.
     
    PSman1700 and eloyc like this.
  7. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    3dfx nailed it at 3D during the mid to late 90's. PS2 and Xbox both were real 3d monsters just doing it differently :) Oculus Rift S and HTC vive do VR really well for being VR. Don't know if VR will replace traditional screens though.
     
  8. davew

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    9
    Interesting shots and polygon counts for the Dreamcast games. Having played a lot of PS2 games recently, I must say the jump in polygon complexity is staggering, more than I anticipated. I guess the Dreamcast just hit at the wrong time, to me a lot of the games for that system seem to be moderately higher polygon counts from PlayStation level games. Perhaps the tools and talent were not quite up to speed in late 98 to early 2000? Seems that Dreamcast had a few outliers that pushed the 1 million mark, but not many? Still a great machine and died too soon.

    Just started playing Need for Speed Most Wanted on the PS2, that must be pushing a massive amount of polys, is there a chance anyone has that and an emulator that can read the vert amounts on that?
     
    milk likes this.
  9. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Location:
    France
    In a weird way, It felt like voodoo 5 vs geforce 256/ 2. No T&L was a big miss in some games. PowerVR Series 2 was very good, but it seems that the SH-4 was not enough to feed it with more polys ? Anyway, I still have a dreamcast :eek:
     
  10. Cloofoofoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    117
    Could just be old tools and lack of designing art styles, i mean the dc didnt have the same big pool of devs working on it compared to the ps1 and ps2.If emulators are meant to be believed quite a few hit far beyond the 1mpps. I tooks a few comparative shots here. Maybe the dc cant keep up on the same terms as the ps2 but when pushed on its merits it seems do just fine.

    Star wars episode 1: Jedi power battles Dreamcast = 43,014 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.58 mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Metal gear solid 2 prologue : 24,904 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5mpps
    [​IMG]

    Virtua Fighter 4: 40,771 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.4mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Dead or Alive 2 dreamcast = 47,371 tris per frame @ 60 fps = 2.8 million polygons per second.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    DoA Paradise psp = 58,523 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.75 million polygons per second.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    xaeroxcore, corysama and PSman1700 like this.
  11. Cloofoofoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    117
    I guess a short part 2 :

    Yakuza(the emu runs it double framerate) :
    35,949 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.07 million polygons per second
    [​IMG]

    Shenmue 2:46,507 tris per frame x 30fps = 1.3 mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    xaeroxcore and PSman1700 like this.
  12. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    2,907
    Ok....this is quite strange. PS2 games give the impression that they have more geometry, Dreamcast games appear blockier but based on your numbers the Dreamcast games had more polygons per second??
     
  13. Cloofoofoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    117
    To be honest sometimes its just the art style. For example in yakuza kazama kiryu is extremly detailed but the people aorund him are like jet set radio polygon counts it just they never get close to the camera, while in shenmue polygon count seems to be distributed everywhere. The ps2 is more consistent with its polygon count though, the dreamcast spikes from very low to extremely high. Also the ps2 seems to have more light sources and then it has its framebuffer effects. Iam pretty sure this all impacts the way things look, in no way iam saying the dc is better. Then coupled with the fact alot of dreamcast games looked like they struggled with the modeling software.

    An example of how low the people are in quality.: 36,028 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.08 mpp
    [​IMG]

    An example how shitty the art can be on the dreamcast despite high polygon counts:49,563 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.4 million polygons per second
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    xaeroxcore likes this.
  14. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    2,907
    Thats strange. I wonder why they struggled. Arent games typically modeled in any software of choice and then imported?
    The majority of DC games look blocky. It makes you wonder since the DC and it's tools were made to make development easier whereas the PS2 was the console where developers struggled
     
    xaeroxcore likes this.
  15. Cloofoofoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    117
    I meant maybe it took a while to see what didnt work and what did when it came to densing up models from ps1 transition to dc/ps2 and the dc just didnt live long enough to reap the benefits.Not to mentions companies that got it right from the get-go like square , konami and a few others refused to pour any meaningful resource on the dc at all. For example soul calibur 1 vs soul calibur psp/tekken psp

    Soul calibur DC cervantes vs seigfried : 28,611 tris per frame x 60 fps =1.7 mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    soul calibur broken destiny psp :Cervantes vs yoshimitsu = 16,845 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1mpps
    [​IMG]

    Tekken5 PSP lei vs xaioyu = 17,231 x 60 fps = 1mpps
    [​IMG]

    Though sometimes , like in resident evil 4 the ps2 does extreme amount of clipping. Heres the pc version(which is based on the ps2 version assets) vs ps2:
    Pc captured everything in the scene nothing clipped:65,629 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.9 mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    PS2 version : 17,680 tris per frame x 30 fps = 530K pps
    [​IMG]
     
    xaeroxcore and Nesh like this.
  16. Panino Manino

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    62
    DOA 2 is a beautiful game, but almost 3 million polygons is crazy!
     
  17. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    2,907
    I am curious how many polygons Tekken Tag Tournament 1 has per second
     
  18. Cloofoofoo

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    117
    OK, lets make it a 3 way comparison. Tekken tag tournament on ps2 vs dead or alive 2 dreamcast vs soul calibur 2 gamecube. In a japanese graphics book I have they mention soul calibur 2 does like 4,000 polygons per character( they showed yoshimitsu at 4,300 polygons) and the stages around 20,000 polygons. Surprisingly low , so lets see how close is that estimate.

    tekken tag ps2 :39,850 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps
    [​IMG]
    tekken tag :24,874 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5 mpps
    [​IMG]


    Soul calibur 2(GameCube) : 35,667 x 60 fps = 2.1mpps.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Dead or alive 2 dreamcast : 39,402 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    xaeroxcore and Nesh like this.
  19. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,033
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    My initial observation is the DC triangle quality (lighting, shading) is way simpler, effectively looking like high-poly PS1 games.
     
  20. Karamazov

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,422
    Likes Received:
    3,118
    Location:
    France
    at the time i remember interviews of devs saying that:
    for jak and daxter 2 the game was peaking at around 15 millions polygons per second, and for burnout 13 millions.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...