"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers
- Thread starter Farid
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Cloofoofoo
Regular
I think regardless of the toolset this seems like an artistic problem. Maybe lack of experience / budget rather than technical. Or maybe the designs just aren't that exciting.
Think about this at 3000 triangles you got the character from the bouncer and the cutscene models of crisis core and other square enix games on ps2 and psp. Some one extracted a model from Virtua fighter 4 on the ps2 and it's around 8000 triangles. Similar polygon count to the elephant on the high lod. I think it's just a lack of good design or maybe modeling experience.
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Sure I'll post it when I get the time. Basically the high lod have panels, grills , beveled edges, body indentations modeled. While the mid lod is more basic
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Here they are with wireframe overlay. This time its the buffalo and lion. You know the high lod models used in the replay were probably that high because even with such models the polygon budget barely broke 1 million during replays I suspect.
Even during worse case scenario all enemies huddled next to player which is like 5 of them times lets 2000 triangles on average for the medium lod models per enemy then of the 10,000- 20,000 triangles of the track only a really small section is always seen lets say around 4,000 triangles( iam being generous, depending on the track a section could go as low as 1,200 triangles). The replay players character buffalo 7,300 triangles plus a sled thats around 1,800 triangles. All that times 30 frames per second.
2,000 x 5 = 10,000 triangles for the enemies + 4,000 for the track section + 7,300 for buffalo on replay + 1,800 for a land sled = 23,100 x 30 fps = 693,000 tris per second. Might be wrong(could be higher because iam not counting enemy sleds, turrets and enemy or player weapon/weapon effects) but that is the impression I get.
Buffalo high lod - 7,309 triangles
Buffalo mid lod - 2,608 tris
Lion high lod - 6,268 tris
lion mid lod - 1,794 tris
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Next game up Tee off golf for the dreamcast. I guess appearances arent everything because this game might be pushing somewhat hefty amount of geometry at 60fps. Very high polygon characters for 1999. The sequel was done by another company and it came only in japan.
The sequel is considerably lower in polygon count and the courses are also lower. The highest character in Golf Shiyouyo 2: Arata Naru Chousen is around 3,000 triangles(on average seems to be 2,000) while the courses range from 3,000 to 4,500 triangles. So I am not covering that one.
Tee off - bottoms up - dreamcast
Jurian - 6,119 tris
Chris - 5,571 tris
Random course - 5,656 tris
All golf clubs - 1,764 tris
Tee marker thing - 300 tris
Golf ball - 528 tris
The sequel is considerably lower in polygon count and the courses are also lower. The highest character in Golf Shiyouyo 2: Arata Naru Chousen is around 3,000 triangles(on average seems to be 2,000) while the courses range from 3,000 to 4,500 triangles. So I am not covering that one.
Tee off - bottoms up - dreamcast
Jurian - 6,119 tris
Chris - 5,571 tris
Random course - 5,656 tris
All golf clubs - 1,764 tris
Tee marker thing - 300 tris
Golf ball - 528 tris
Can you send me an FBX for the buffallo and lions both Hi and low LODs?
I am interested to see where these polygons are going
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Or kratos from god of war on the psp lol. I think for the next game Ill retread seventh cross evolution. The main character is always quite high poly for the time and not to mention it could change its limbs.
Sure. Ive included fbx and obj files in zip. Let me know whats your conclusion on the models.
Cloofoofoo
Regular
I returned to d2 for a more indepth look at it. I must say their modeling is really nice for the polygon budget they had. I think other dreamcast games should have taken note, even shenmue. It seems the focus no matter how low poly the character is they always made sure they had a detailed face and all ten fingers and that proportions were somewhat realistic.
Brings me to my next point, I see that laura actually has two cutscene models one really high(which is the one we usually see in cutscenes and exploration) then a lower one(not sure where this one is used). Then finally we have the game play model who is 2,000 tris but still looks almost as detailed as the highest model. The stages are also very detailed and well modeled.
Laura Cutscene model 1 - 3,843 tris
Laura cutscene model 2 - 2,872 tris
Laura gameplay model - 2,061 tris
Laura first person model - 2,282 tris
Boss 2 : grandpa - 2,456 tris
boss 3 : terrorist - 2,434 tris
enemy1 - 902 tris
Cabin - 7,066 tris
mineshaft? - 12,730 tris
unknown room - 7,998 tris
Brings me to my next point, I see that laura actually has two cutscene models one really high(which is the one we usually see in cutscenes and exploration) then a lower one(not sure where this one is used). Then finally we have the game play model who is 2,000 tris but still looks almost as detailed as the highest model. The stages are also very detailed and well modeled.
Laura Cutscene model 1 - 3,843 tris
Laura cutscene model 2 - 2,872 tris
Laura gameplay model - 2,061 tris
Laura first person model - 2,282 tris
Boss 2 : grandpa - 2,456 tris
boss 3 : terrorist - 2,434 tris
enemy1 - 902 tris
Cabin - 7,066 tris
mineshaft? - 12,730 tris
unknown room - 7,998 tris
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Next game is Segas Super Speed Racing / Cart - flag to flag, developed by Zoom inc. Surprisingly this game is ultra low poly. I would say maybe like a high end n64 game. The player and the cpu cars have similar high lod around 600 triangles. The cpu cars then have a middle lod thats not even worth showing because it isnt too different from the high lod but the lowest lod is downright ridiculous.Its around 35 triangles. The tracks I wasnt able to extract properly as they comeout in small chunks but to be honest the chunks are so low poly id be willing to bet it isn't past a couple thousand triangles. No idea why this game runs 30 fps on the dreamcast.
The interesting part is that while going through the model files I found a car model thats close to 20,000 polygons. Beautifully modeled which extreme details. Thing is no idea where this model is used. It isnt used in replays or car selection screen or the music demo mode. No clue where this model is applied.
Cart Flag to flag - 1999 - Dreamcast - zoom inc
Super high poly cart - 18,363 triangles
Player cart/ cpu high lod - 684 triangles
CPU lowest lod - 35 triangles
The interesting part is that while going through the model files I found a car model thats close to 20,000 polygons. Beautifully modeled which extreme details. Thing is no idea where this model is used. It isnt used in replays or car selection screen or the music demo mode. No clue where this model is applied.
Cart Flag to flag - 1999 - Dreamcast - zoom inc
Super high poly cart - 18,363 triangles
Player cart/ cpu high lod - 684 triangles
CPU lowest lod - 35 triangles
Cloofoofoo
Regular
Adding to my last post I finally understand where the high poly car model was used. It was used in the game credits after winning a championship, where there is nothing but the high poly car model on screen. After watching the credits I realized the car is even higher polygon count than that. A separate car body duplicate was used but I didnt understand what for, turns out on top of the 18,000 triangles another 5,000 polygons what used solely to layer a translucent environment map on it.
High polygon model environment map layer - 5,326 triangles( if you add the base cars 18,363 triangle = 23,689 triangles in total)
High polygon model environment map layer - 5,326 triangles( if you add the base cars 18,363 triangle = 23,689 triangles in total)
Well, if we are in a gen when we have polygons to spare, but yet you don't have the biggest art budget, might as well put those polys to use, even if the model's art is not stellar. I'd rather look at a bland model with nicely rounded curves and beveled edges than one that is bland AND pointy.
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