"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

[Cloofoofoo]

SlashOut - Naomi - Amusement Vision

Nice detailed stages visible from end to end. Regular enemies sub 1,000 triangles. 4 player game. a pain , has alot of lod models.

Slash ( player character , High lod) : 1,555 triangles

Stage 1 , Ciliego Cathedral : 15,913 triangles

Stage 1 , Boss room : 7,306 triangles

 

[xaeroxcore]

SlashOut - Naomi - Amusement Vision

Nice detailed stages visible from end to end. Regular enemies sub 1,000 triangles. 4 player game. a pain , has alot of lod models.

Slash ( player character , High lod) : 1,555 triangles

Stage 1 , Ciliego Cathedral : 15,913 triangles

Stage 1 , Boss room : 7,306 triangles

I wonder why this one and RingOut 4x4 werent ported to DC. Both would had been great graphical feat for the console...

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Sega Marine Fishing - Dreamcast/ Naomi

Nice looking game though slightly higher than i anticipated . The underwater part the meshes are probably duplicated and layered on top of each other because ingame the used a separate layer to fake water caustics. The assistance and boat driver pretty much have the same body as the fisherman. naomilib game

Fisherman (player) - 2,447 triangles

Mako shark - 1,198 triangles

Stage 1( coral reef, below water) - 45,412 triangles

stage 1( coral reef , above water) - 8,390 triangles

fishing boat - 1,730 triangles

fishing lure - 482 triangles

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Dynamite Cop : Asian Dynamite - Naomi

Extremely well modeled despite the modest polygon counts. Wasnt able to pull the stages or enemies but its probably not too different from the player characters. Reskin of Dynamite Cop on dreamcast

Wolf Hongo ( cutscene model) - 4,995 triangles

President daughter (cutscene model) - 3,681 triangles

Bruno(player) Jihad costume - 1,048 triangles

Caroline (player) jianshi costume - 970 triangles

Jennifer - 994 triangles

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Mazan : Flash of the blade - Naomi - Namco

Was always impressed with this game, nice presentation wouldnt look out of place on ps2. The actual polygon counts are very low but namco made sure to give most human models fingers and modeled faces always, very clever modeling. Faces use morph targets, even faces on monsters.

Main Character(light bringer?) - 1,312 triangles

Final Boss(soul stealer?) - 1,260 triangles

Maiden saved first stage - 1,633 triangles

Boss 1( sister of saved maiden, Cat demon) - 1,106 triangles

Spider Demon - 1,314 triangles

Headless swordsman - 842 triangles

small demon of hell - 684 triangles

river segment of second stage - 6,264 triangles

 

[xaeroxcore]

Dynamite Cop : Asian Dynamite - Naomi

Extremely well modeled despite the modest polygon counts. Wasnt able to pull the stages or enemies but its probably not too different from the player characters. Reskin of Dynamite Cop on dreamcast

Wolf Hongo ( cutscene model) - 4,995 triangles

President daughter (cutscene model) - 3,681 triangles

Bruno(player) Jihad costume - 1,048 triangles

Caroline (player) jianshi costume - 970 triangles

Jennifer - 994 triangles

Mazan : Flash of the blade - Naomi - Namco

Was always impressed with this game, nice presentation wouldnt look out of place on ps2. The actual polygon counts are very low but namco made sure to give most human models fingers and modeled faces always, very clever modeling. Faces use morph targets, even faces on monsters.

Main Character(light bringer?) - 1,312 triangles

Final Boss(soul stealer?) - 1,260 triangles

Maiden saved first stage - 1,633 triangles

Boss 1( sister of saved maiden, Cat demon) - 1,106 triangles

Spider Demon - 1,314 triangles

Headless swordsman - 842 triangles

small demon of hell - 684 triangles

river segment of second stage - 6,264 triangles

Amaziiiiiing! Mazan and specially Asian Dynamite shows the real potential untapped of Naomi and therefore Dreamcast. I used to thought Dynamite was a Naomi 2 game, due to its good graphics, but it runs on regular Naomi, so it could run on DC without issues. Great example of optimization and really shows what DC could have done if it would had lived a couple of years more...Hope someday scene at least would be able to port to DC Naomi games unported, like this one, Monkey Ball, Slashout and RingOut....

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Amaziiiiiing! Mazan and specially Asian Dynamite shows the real potential untapped of Naomi and therefore Dreamcast. I used to thought Dynamite was a Naomi 2 game, due to its good graphics, but it runs on regular Naomi, so it could run on DC without issues. Great example of optimization and really shows what DC could have done if it would had lived a couple of years more...Hope someday scene at least would be able to port to DC Naomi games unported, like this one, Monkey Ball, Slashout and RingOut....

Iam not sure how you came to that conclusion about untapped potential, if anything asian dynamite shows the opposite, if you look at the character model they are absurdly low but extremely well modeled. If anything it points to being same polygon count as dynamite cop on dc just that models are of much higher quality technique wise. Which makes sense since it came out when the x360 was around, by then the artist had the entire ps2/gc/xbox generation to improve modeling/texturing techniques. Its interesting it was handled by sega china( or whatever their name is) so it definitely brings difference from the usual internal japan stuff.

 

[xaeroxcore]

Iam not sure how you came to that conclusion about untapped potential, if anything asian dynamite shows the opposite, if you look at the character model they are absurdly low but extremely well modeled. If anything it points to being same polygon count as dynamite cop on dc just that models are of much higher quality technique wise. Which makes sense since it came out when the x360 was around, by then the artist had the entire ps2/gc/xbox generation to improve modeling/texturing techniques. Its interesting it was handled by sega china( or whatever their name is) so it definitely brings difference from the usual internal japan stuff.

May be i picked the wrong term: more than untapped potential is an example of great optimization and art direction, using effectively the resoruces. I know if we put, for example, Zombie Revenge against Asian, Zombie has more geometry, but damn, Asian textures and lighting (even being pre baked) are superb and gives the impression to look more advanced than Zombie Revenge and others 3D beat'em up from DC....One of the biggest conclusion i´ve reached on this thread is that yes, DC is less powerful than other 128 bit system...we knew that even back in the day, but polycounts wise, was not that far...and the problem with most of its games were devs didnt know at the time how to take advantage of it...Most of DCs catalogue was obviously made under 32/64 bit era tools and techniques. Only hope is, as i said before, may be scene gets a way to port unported Naomi games and, specially, indie 3D engines for DC reach levels high enough to create more complex games that even the ones we saw at retail.

 

[TapamN]

Asian Dynamite is what happens when you have more experienced artists and REALLY take advantage of the extra 8MB of video RAM the Naomi has over the DC. There's a ludicrous number of 512x512 and 1024x1024 textures. Sega seemed strangely hesitant to heavily use texture compression the majority of Naomi games, but pretty much everything in Asian Dynamite is compressed. Unfortunately, the artists didn't handle the color/pattern limitations of VQ compression too well, so some of them have really noticeable blocking (Texture switching is cheap on the DC! Keep the face and clothing in separate textures so the codebook doesn't get spread so thin!). And they used ARGB4444 textures without dithering where ARGB1555 should have been used, which leads to REALLY bad banding.

I ripped some textures with Flycast, here are some interesting ones.

https://imgur.com/a/z1yyi7J

 

[Nesh]

Where was this texture used?

edit:
Just looked for the game and noticed that some characters look familiar. Like chinese knock offs of existing personalities
Like this guy:


Or how about this guy?

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Sega Bass Fishing (dreamcast version)

Fisherman(player) - 1,971 triangles

boat - 1,656 triangles

lure -922 triangles

special lure - 832 triangles

area 2 topside - 29,313 triangles

area 2 underside - 22,610 triangles

area 09 (topside+underside+ reflections) - 28,944 triangles

 

[jpscorpio]

Cloofoofoo would you be willing to tell me some numbers of the psp games Silent Hill:Origins, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Justice League Heroes, Spiderman 2, and Obscure the Aftermath please.

 

[Viperzerofsx]

I’d love to get my hands on this car model for the 1999 ps2 Ridge Racer demo. According to the RRV website it was supposed to drive around but they only had a few weeks to work on it and it ran too slow.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Ring : terrors realm - dreamcast

I thought i had posted this up months ago but i guess not. so here you go. Despite being based off the ring series the nemies are actually demons and apes. Pretty low budget game I imagine.

Meg ( real life) - 1,108 triangles

Meg ( Virtual Reality) - 1,156 triangles

NPC (virtual reality) - 1,050 triangles

Regular enemy( demon) - 910 triangles

Sadako (final boss) - 846 triangles

CDC building( lobby) - 11,080 triangles

cdc room - 5,976 triangles

Rooftop( final boss) - 6,710 triangles

 

[Nesh]

I’d love to get my hands on this car model for the 1999 ps2 Ridge Racer demo. According to the RRV website it was supposed to drive around but they only had a few weeks to work on it and it ran too slow.

Where did you find those images of the original demo car?

 

[Viperzerofsx]

Where did you find those images of the original demo car?

• Akinari Nakajima video resume

 

[Nesh]

Now I wonder where did HE get the model

 

[Viperzerofsx]

Now I wonder where did HE get the model

He made it! That’s the artist. I tried to contact them but failed. It was on a non archived part of the RRV website and an old PDF I’ve since lost. (Not they seem to have changed names since then). I’m curious if the model might be on the RRV disk since apparently the demo was the basis of RRV. Otherwise I don’t see how to get it without the artist.

 

[xaeroxcore]

Ring : terrors realm - dreamcast

I thought i had posted this up months ago but i guess not. so here you go. Despite being based off the ring series the nemies are actually demons and apes. Pretty low budget game I imagine.

Meg ( real life) - 1,108 triangles

Meg ( Virtual Reality) - 1,156 triangles

NPC (virtual reality) - 1,050 triangles

Regular enemy( demon) - 910 triangles

Sadako (final boss) - 846 triangles

CDC building( lobby) - 11,080 triangles

cdc room - 5,976 triangles

Rooftop( final boss) - 6,710 triangles

Characters look surpringsily good, considering their low polycount around 1k...Even regular enemies have modeled individual fingers. Some DC games that look way better than this game, incluiding code veronica fail in this basic aspect on most of its character models, excluiding obviously clare and chris redfield, among other few.....

 

[xaeroxcore]

Wanna read some neat info about SDC poly counts? Check this thread on YouTube, one of the developers of Headhunter just unveiled great data about the game:

how about scrapped online mode (canceled by Sega)? or up 50k polys on screen at 30 fps? Also, i´m mentioning him this thread.