Xenon easier to develop for than xbox!?!

ShootMyMonkey said:
“They had an Xbox game in development, and they converted it to Xenon in six weeks."
Ummm... That's really not *that* impressive if you take it straight up. The use of extreme low-level code optimizations is pretty rare on an Xbox title. Most all of your code is C/C++ all the way. The only low level code you'll have would be your vertex and pixel shaders -- which would definitely have to change because Xbox's GPU has some instructions that are totally exclusive to Xbox. So you'll have to convert your vertex and pixel shaders to sm2.0 or so to get the sufficient number of instructions. Big whoop, a single guy could do that in about 2 or 3 days, maybe less depending on how many shaders you've got. Then there's the matter of making your code 64-bit clean because of the PPC ISA... i.e. no casting pointers to ints, no assumed data sizes and always using sizeof() instead, lots of error trapping, etc., etc. And then working out all the compiler/linker issues that are sure to popup because of differences in levels of ANSI compliance. That really doesn't amount to a whole lot unless their codebase is horrible spaghetti like so many game codebases out there (which doesn't really increase the workload so much as it makes the problems a lot harder to find). Oh, well, that and the the render pipe might need some minor modifications because some features supported on Xbox D3D are deprecated in D3D9 (e.g. arbitrary width wireframe). If it were a matter of commercial middleware everywhere through the codebase, it would have taken even less than 6 weeks.

The quote doesn't really say anything about optimizations or whether they converted the codebase to a multithreaded one (which should have taken a LOT more than 6 weeks if included with everything else)... I seriously doubt that a whole lot was done to get the darn thing performing well. Fact of the matter is that everything that would have to be done to get everything working comfortably in Xbox-land will probably run just fine (but not great) in Xbox2-land.


While I agree that by enlarge code changes on the app side wouldn't be particularly scary.

You also have touch every tool in your pipeline, so that they produce data in Xenon friendly big-endian instead of Xbox friendly little-endian.

The later task for me has always been the killer getting software up on different platforms.

But 6 weeks is a reasonable timeframe assuming nothing majo goes wrong, I've spent > a week just getting a large application compiled when moving it from one compiler/api to another.
 
Aren't the early developer kits based around a dual core Power PC? Rare coders should be familar with Power PC because of the Gamecubes CPU.
 
What was it easy to do... port? Change the code to make an Xbox title workable on Xenon with no other changes? Alter a project somewhat?

What does that have to do with making games "easier to develop on Xenon?" The selling point of the new systems will be their new capabilities, so we're talking every graphical and art enhancement they can stick in, with all the new physics, AI, effects, etc. that Xenon can support, plus everything else currently unknown, unlooked-for, and to-be-experimented-with by the developers who give a damn...

Show of hands as to who thinks this will make game development cost less and take less time?

...no?

Considering THAT is what would really make a system "easier to develop for"...

Do they perhaps mean "easier to code for in certain ways?" Then sure, I guess. It could do that.
 
Brimstone said:
Aren't the early developer kits based around a dual core Power PC? Rare coders should be familar with Power PC because of the Gamecubes CPU.

Knowing rare it will ship in 2009. Does anyone remember when Kameo was almost done on the GC and there was a news story that they had it running on a xbox dev kit within weeks also. I think art creation is gonna be the biggest time consumer for devs nextgen.

On a side note I was told by a friend that Xenon will be the first system in a long time that ship with a packin game at launch. Maybe Kameo will be it.
 
Pozer said:
On a side note I was told by a friend that Xenon will be the first system in a long time that ship with a packin game at launch. Maybe Kameo will be it.

We often forget about the little things...

I cannot vouch for this claim BUT consoles are mostly about the games... mostly. If MS launches X2 with a quality launch title packed in to get the console flying off shelves, well, that sticks Sony in a hard situation. They basically have to "lose" profits on one game to match or rely on their brand/launch titles to squash X2. This could give MS some momentum. I would not even want to think about the X2 being cheaper ($50-$100) plus a packin. Well, I would because then the boards would be full of life ;)

A lot of parents would look at two $300 consoles and see that one comes with a "cool" game and save $50. Sure, not every person will see it this way, but there is no doubting a lot of people would look at $300 as a sizable investment and IF they can get a good free game that may be enough to sway them.
 
For a xenon launch title why don't they just do halo the first two chapters or something else corny with the name


If its true and they can port games in 3 weeks , that would mean halo 1+ 2 can be ported in 6 weeks . Use improved textures from the pc versions (i'm sure a halo 2 pc port is in the works ) add on more fsaa , aniso , increase the cap for multiplayer , add in hdr or something and a few other slight mods and put it in the xenon launch package .

For xbox owners its a nice little upgrade and it comes for free and if the system isn't backwards compatable it makes upgrading easier to swallow as those are the systems better games

For people who never played halo you get both games for free with added features

For ms you get more people to try live

For bungie you get some payments from ms and you get hype built up for the next halo game
 
Deepak said:
- so will XB2 games be coded in VB? :)
Who said VB is easy? :?
C# would be a far better option than VB (IMO).


Magnum PI said:
you must mean ten tons of salt..

it's j allard speaking about xbox after all...
So you think there's a really strong chance he was lying? I don't really see why he would lie about that. If it took Rare considerably longer than 3 weeks, he'd just cite some other positive news.
 
Inane_Dork said:
So you think there's a really strong chance he was lying? I don't really see why he would lie about that. If it took Rare considerably longer than 3 weeks, he'd just cite some other positive news.

may I suggest that J. "100 million" Allard could be a little bit biased when he's talking about his baby ?

it's PR-talk, and as PR-talk it must be taken with a truckload of salt, like the talks of the myiamoto/iwata, sony staff, le pitre moulinex..

and i don't want to debate about the relative credibility of each one of them..
 
Back
Top