Xbox : What should MS do next? *spawn

[Shifty Geezer]

Function may have a technical point regards exact semantics, but for the purposes of the thread I'm not sure it makes much difference. I suppose a true price drop would have better value at $399 than the current $399 SKU. If people are really after a Kinect XB1 and are waiting for its price to drop, the $399 option isn't appealing. Therefore the price for what they want is still $499. The Kinectless SKU only counts as a price drop for consumers who don't want Kinect. People's opinions as to what portion of the market that is will be divided.

 

[AzBat]

For the Kinect SKU most people considered the Kinect adding $100 more to the value of the system. They were expecting it to cost $400. So in my eyes when the Kinect-less SKU did release, it released at it's perceived value - $400. Therefore it's not a price drop. I would could consider a price drop if the Kinect SKU was dropped below $500 permanently or the Kinect-less SKU dropped below $400 permanently. Hopefully we'll get one of those this fall. However, I'm not jumping in until it's around $300 out of pocket(with or without Kinect). Probably have to wait until Fall 2015 for that.

Tommy McClain

 

[Rangers]

Without a serious price cut, I can't see MS leading any off the NPD sales this year,

I agree it seems unlikely, the current pattern is established. Hell 360 beat PS3 for over 30 straight months I think.

There are people on GAF thinking Xbox might be able to steal August, because of the Madden bundle and it being a slow month. I think that's reasonable, but would put odds at only 20% maybe. Steal or sneak one by would be the appropriate terms.

Beyond that maybe they can get a Nov or Dec by a small amount if PS4 is supply constrained again, but it's unlikely. Those seem to be the only realistic scenarios barring a major change or a bundle really moving the needle. BTW, Sony must hate that MS stole December 2013, because now they cant say "we've won every single NPD" or anything like that, forever

or even accumulating over 6.5 million worldwide by years end.

Now this seems like trollish nonsense. They're probably ~5 million now, and should be able to do 1.5 million just in November and December in USA. Probably more, and plus all the other months and the rest of the world.

Just using the old reliable 2X shipments vs USA sales that has always held for Xbox, both 360 and early months of One that we had data for, they should be right around 6 million shipped worldwide. With of course sales lagging that.

Sure, Halo MCC, might/will push a few thousand units, and sale >2.3 million copies across the current user base... but I don't see the sustaining power needed when PS4 has more AAA titles this year,

PS4 has more AAA titles the rest of this year? Drive Club and LBP 3 is all I know of. Vs Project Spark, Forza Horizon 2, MCC, and Sunset Overdrive that I know of. What am I missing? And please dont respond with ye old list wars of dozens of indie titles. I'm actually pretty surprised Sony is going into this fall without a grade A exclusive FPS, TPS or action game. But I guess it's proof hardware sells hardware, not exclusive software, because they shouldn't have any trouble shifting PS4's, and probably know that.

 

[BRiT]

The price of entry is $100 less. The fact that most people don't want a Kinect makes it a defacto price drop.

By that logic, Sony was first with a $60 price drop of nextgen systems when they removed the PS4 Eye from the bundle.

 

[function]

Function may have a technical point regards exact semantics, but for the purposes of the thread I'm not sure it makes much difference. I suppose a true price drop would have better value at $399 than the current $399 SKU. If people are really after a Kinect XB1 and are waiting for its price to drop, the $399 option isn't appealing. Therefore the price for what they want is still $499. The Kinectless SKU only counts as a price drop for consumers who don't want Kinect. People's opinions as to what portion of the market that is will be divided.

Precisely!

A true $100 would have been the Kinect package sold at $399, and would have represented much better value than the new $399 package.

The $399 package is something new and not as good (the degree to which will vary by person).

As the Xbox One continues to build on what Kinect has to offer (for example the TV streaming and hopefully some frikkin' games) the degree to which the packages are different should become more apparent.

Personally I'd only buy a Kinected SKU, but I'd certainly be waiting for a real "price drop" of the full Xbox One package. For me, the distinction between a real price drop and the new, gimped SKU is very clear!

 

[Deleted member 86764]

By that logic, Sony was first with a $60 price drop of nextgen systems when they removed the PS4 Eye from the bundle.

If true it was a damn good move.

 

[DrJay24]

By that logic, Sony was first with a $60 price drop of nextgen systems when they removed the PS4 Eye from the bundle.

Sure, if indeed you can drop the price before it goes on sale.

 

[Rangers]

I saw a post on GAF that seemed to reference reliable information from an NPD insider, that 55% of One's sold in June were Kinectless. No figures for July.

I suspect the number is higher going forward if anything. June had two weeks where Kinectless SKU wasn't available to skew things. And we see from Amazon Kinect SKU isn't in top 100 while Kinectless is in the top 50 persistently.

So I guess, that should be some vindication of the decision to pull out Kinect. The majority apparently are choosing the non-Kinect SKU.

Anyways in my mind they really didn't have any choice, sales were just pitiable at the end of the Kinect SKU time. It was a absolutely necessary beginning step. Now I think they need to at a minimum make sure there's a (desirable) free game packed in with every Xbox, imo. Madden and SO bundles are a start I guess.

Personally I'd only buy a Kinected SKU, but I'd certainly be waiting for a real "price drop" of the full Xbox One package. For me, the distinction between a real price drop and the new, gimped SKU is very clear!

That's you but I kind of disagree. When I mentioned back at the time the 399 SKU doesn't have Kinect to my more "average gamer" friend, someone who doesn't post on message boards, his response was a dismissive and final "I dont care about Kinect". And this is a guy with kids who got Kinect on his 360 a few years ago ostensibly for them. They are young boys, and hell I dont think they play Kinect anymore either, rather stuff like the Lego Marvel game.

I wanted (and got) the Kinect SKU as well, but TBH ONLY for the idea that I might someday soon use the fitness aspects. To date I havent even taken Kinect out of the box. Ironically I also bought Kinect for my 360 and it sits unopened in the closet to this day as well (I later investigated ebaying it, seemed to only fetch about 30 bucks at the time so it's not even worth the trouble). They say the One UI is poor and not designed for use without Kinect, but really I haven't had any problems, it's essentially equally as usable as 360 without Kinect to my experience, so that seems overblown.

Too me Kinect might have some value in attracting families in the holiday time of year. That's about the only practical value I see. The problem is $499 just doesn't cut it in that role. At this point I could see Kinect fading away as it seems to be.

 

[steveOrino]

Why wouldn't MS EoL the Kinect SKU altogether at this point? I mean they seem to be sweeping its existence (and games that go with it) under the rug and they already burned the bridges with early adopters/developers that were putting a stake in its future.

Its no troll its a legitimate question. I mean, they even said recently they dont want Rare to be considered a Kinect only studio when they have been since 2010.

 

[Xalion]

By that logic, Sony was first with a $60 price drop of nextgen systems when they removed the PS4 Eye from the bundle.

The PS4 was sold without the PS4 Eye from day 1 at the same price it is being sold now.

The XBox One was sold for several months with only the Kinect. Microsoft made a lot of noise about the Kinect being part of the core experience. Then when sales appeared to be slipping they suddenly changed course and started offering the SKU without it.

The two situations are in no way comparable. At this point, arguing about a price drop vs. no price drop is an exercise in pure semantics. The point remains that the entry point for the XBox changed by $100. Call it a price drop, call it the introduction of a new SKU. I don't really think it matters for the context of this thread.

That being said, I think people are underestimating the XBox. Particularly once more games come out where XBox Live is important. I don't think there has been any real incentive for those who own a 360 to switch yet. However, people have a lot invested in XBox Live and I don't see gamers throwing that away to switch platforms.

 

[function]

Why wouldn't MS EoL the Kinect SKU altogether at this point?

Because they want to keep selling it.

I mean they seem to be sweeping its existence (and games that go with it) under the rug and they already burned the bridges with early adopters/developers that were putting a stake in its future.

Sweeping it out of existence by adding things like Skype Snap, and Smartglass streaming with remote IR blaster use before the end of this year.

Its no troll its a legitimate question.

Well, at least now we can be sure it's not a troll!

I mean, they even said recently they dont want Rare to be considered a Kinect only studio when they have been since 2010.

Perhaps, you know, they don't want Rare to be considered a Kinect only studio.

 

[DrJay24]

Because they want to keep selling it.

And they have a lot out there on shelves. I doubt they are producing many a this point, its ranked #156 on Amazon behind three non-Kinect SKUs.

 

[steveOrino]

Sweeping it out of existence by adding things like Skype Snap, and Smartglass streaming with remote IR blaster use before the end of this year.

Well thats cool they are introducing non gaming functionality.

My question had to do with Kinect as a gaming device and their refusal to showcase anything at their conferences.

 

[Shortbread]

Regardless of the Kinect status, it's officially a fracture user base... meaning; developers have no obligation on supporting it one way or the other. And its probably a wiser decision for them to use the extra resources towards more stable framerates or resolution parity.

 

[function]

Regardless of the Kinect status, it's officially a fracture user base... meaning; developers have no obligation on supporting it one way or the other.

To be fair, developers had no obligation to support it before there was a Kinectless SKU.

Hell, MS felt no obligation to support it from a gaming POV at any time.

*sigh*

And its probably a wiser decision for them to use the extra resources towards more stable framerates or resolution parity.

Yeah. Games that want to use Kinect still can, and games that don't want to can use the power for other things. For OS functions, just make sure that with the new SDK comes a requirement to handle having some resources taken back when playing with a snapped app. The drop in resolution for the game window when snapped should make this fairly easy.

A large blanket reserve is a crude way of handling multi tasking.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Well thats cool they are introducing non gaming functionality.

My question had to do with Kinect as a gaming device and their refusal to showcase anything at their conferences.

They already stated it doesn't work well on stage. Theres been two ID@XBOX Kinect titles announced over the past few weeks.

 

[Shortbread]

They already stated it doesn't work well on stage.

I'm pretty sure he meant video footage (in action) of Kinect games that are coming.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Why wouldn't MS EoL the Kinect SKU altogether at this point?

Because they want to keep selling it.

And the reason is that the Kinect package is likely significantly more profitable for Microsoft. IHS costed the Kinect at $75 back in November 2013 with some, like TheWretched and eastmen, contesting that costing and believing the cost is significantly lower.

If you take the $75 figure at face value, every Xbox One Kinect bundle brings Microsoft an extra $25 prime rib profit due to the inclusion of Kinect. If you subscribe to the TheWretched/eastmen position, and numbers as low at $50 build costs were suggested, then Microsoft were benefiting to the tune of $50 clear profit due to the inclusion of Kinect with Xbox One.

Now remove Kinect and drop off $100 and Microsoft are making less profit per console (if any profit at all) due to it's removal.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They already stated it doesn't work well on stage.

The advantage of big staged events is you have those big screens. Occulus and Sony have taken the same approach to show their VR products being used.

The screen on the left shows the game (TV) image and screen on the right simultaneously shows the guy or girl in a room using gestures to the control the game. Have the demonstration live from a room off stage where Kinect does work well and two-way audio with the auditorium so you maintain that feel of interactivity.

It's not an unsolvable problem. If you're confident in your product.

 

[RudeCurve]

Well you shouldn't.

The Kinect SKU is still the same price. People that want that haven't seen a price drop.

A new SKU was introduced at a lower price. That is not a price drop. It is a new SKU with a lower price than the still-exisiting SKU that is still selling for the same price that it always was.

Calling the new SKU a price drop is lazy thinking. This is a different thing to the price dropping or the price staying the same.

It is something else.

+1

It indeed is NOT a price drop...though I do see some people already created their own definition and are too stubborn to admit they're wrong.

Going by their own logic if SONY created a new SKU with a bundled camera that is sold alongside the current model it'd be a price increase...



That said I don't understand why people are so hung up on this non-issue given that MS have been doing different SKUs with the X360 for awhile...ie one with HDD and one without.

Anyway I think MS should release a 1TB White console soon. The COD AW bundle has a 1TB HDD so it looks like it's the next version to be phased in just like they did last gen with increasingly larger HDDs with each new SKU.