Xbox : What should MS do next? *spawn

[function]

I get the same feeling.

People don't really value something they perceive as "free", and a download code in the box while cheap for the vendor doesn't seem as valuable or exciting as a separate, shiny box with a physical disk inside it. The fact that you haven't really chosen the game (or have chosen from a limited choice) is a further downer, as you say.

If Xbox One falls more than, say, 2:1 behind it'll be in danger of eventually becoming irrelevant. That's the kind of sales advantage where retailers really start to push one product ahead of the other (assuming similar margins) and things just snowball from there .. especially if the quality and not just the resolution of multiplatforms is starting to suffer.

Sony made sure they never got too far behind with the PS3, and that meant in later years they could recover. MS are in danger of passing the threshold into irreversible decline if current trends continue over the holidays. They're losing in the US by a clear margin, which means they're getting beasted worldwide.

 

[function]

And the reason is that the Kinect package is likely significantly more profitable for Microsoft. IHS costed the Kinect at $75 back in November 2013 with some, like TheWretched and eastmen, contesting that costing and believing the cost is significantly lower.

If you take the $75 figure at face value, every Xbox One Kinect bundle brings Microsoft an extra $25 prime rib profit due to the inclusion of Kinect. If you subscribe to the TheWretched/eastmen position, and numbers as low at $50 build costs were suggested, then Microsoft were benefiting to the tune of $50 clear profit due to the inclusion of Kinect with Xbox One.

Now remove Kinect and drop off $100 and Microsoft are making less profit per console (if any profit at all) due to it's removal.

Nearly missed this!

You make a good point. I think there are a number of reasons why MS want to keep Kinect alive - long term living room access point still being one of them - this is a good reason especially in the short term.

Perhaps MS should be willing to drop the price differential between SKUs in order to give Kinect a boost though. $349 / $429 (with Kinect Sports) might be a good move to try and capitalise on Christmas, where casual games and talking to the TV might seem particularly special.

 

[temesgen]

Nearly missed this!

You make a good point. I think there are a number of reasons why MS want to keep Kinect alive - long term living room access point still being one of them - this is a good reason especially in the short term.

Perhaps MS should be willing to drop the price differential between SKUs in order to give Kinect a boost though. $349 / $429 (with Kinect Sports) might be a good move to try and capitalise on Christmas, where casual games and talking to the TV might seem particularly special.

MS can't keep Kinect alive if they don't consistently show software for it and this is something MS has seemed to struggle with in the past. When Kinect was first released they nearly completely abandoned first party effort for the core and concentrated on Kinect titles. Some were decent but it wasn't enough.

I still find it amazing that XB1 launched without a dancing game, it would have been relatively simple to throw a relatively small amount of cash towards the development of a dance game that truly took advantage of Kinect 2.0 superior camera. A karaoke game too would have been a good opportunity to showcase the advance microphone, maybe a combo dance/karaoke title where the music was licensed for both would have been a good idea. I also think they could have a good education line of math and reading software for kids that progressed with DLC as they age. Imagine a Kinect reading game where kids read out loud and the game tracks their progress, tutors and shows you where they rank against kids all across the world. They could have added a Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego type game that took advantage of the camera to place kids next to the pyramids, or the Eifel tower or even just to track their hand as they make the shapes of letters and numbers. For what they spent on the NFL they could have gotten so much more and just like Nintendo kids who grew up on MS products and characters would be inclined to stay with the brand.

The workout game has been pointed to as a good implementation of the tech but other than as a rebuttal nobody talks about it. Kinect Sports Rivals is just a mediocre game at best.

I know as a parent that if either company had done half of what I just mentioned we would own that platform. Tablets have to a certain degree through programs like Starfall gained market share for these very reasons. No reason why it couldn't be copied and done so more to greater effect.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Just Dance 2014 was a launch title.

 

[temesgen]

Just Dance 2014 was a launch title.

Just Dance is not a very good use of Kinect, it barely uses the camera at all, not in the sense that it takes advantage of the camera in a way that you'd distinguish it from Kinect 1.0 for example.

That title can not be what the design team had in mind when they envisioned a Kinect with every console sold and it surely wasn't what posters here on B3D had in their minds when they were going on for months about how Kinect was needed to move gaming forward.

 

[fehu]

Something is better than nothing

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For instance, I think they will perceive a $350 console with an add-on $60 game ($410 total) to be a better value than a $399 console with a pack-in game.

Well sure! If they don't want the game that's the pack in, it adds no value. Like PS3 + Killzone. Killzone sold something like 3 million units per iteration, going by the internet's probably made up numbers. oops. Out of 80 million console owners, you're looking at <4% of PS3 buyers wanting KZ. Ergo a KZ bundle is only going to be of value to 4% of potential shoppers. To everyone else, it's $50 extra on a game you didn't want. Even if the bundle is only $20 more, it's $20 you could put towards a game you do actually want.

If there's a super endemic bundle, like COD or GTA, that'll bring value to lots of users. Otherwise one has to be very unpicky about one's games to be happy with any old game thrown in. I don't recall anyone I know getting a bundled game with any console and being particularly enamoured. Someone may have got GT bundled with their PS2. Typically though, bundled games go straight in the drawer to never be played because they weren't wanted.

 

[RudeCurve]

I love bundles but it's never for a game that I really like. That white Sunset Overdrive bundle is nice but:

1. I'm not interested in that game
2. It doesn't include the Kinect camera
3. It doesn't have the 1TB HDD

I still may get it though and sell the game to hold me over until the model I actually want will be available. I could always sell the console when I upgrade to the better model.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

MS can't keep Kinect alive if they don't consistently show software for it and this is something MS has seemed to struggle with in the past. When Kinect was first released they nearly completely abandoned first party effort for the core and concentrated on Kinect titles. Some were decent but it wasn't enough.

I recall, apparently erroneously, Microsoft initially promising lots of exciting Kinect games for Xbox One - around and after the launch of the console. However, try as I might, I can't find any statements to back this up but if you read through these forums during the run-up to launch, the the cost differences of PS4 and XBO were being discussed, a frequent debating point was the value of Kinect and one of those was the future games that would be possible on XBO and not PS4 due to Kinect.

I'm not convinced there are any cool Kinect games coming to justify the value of it's inclusion in the package for those who see little value on gestures or voice control but there probably are people who will always purchase, budget permitting, the all-inclusive package with all the options in the box.

As long as they are selling, and I believe I saw Rangers post figures showing 45% of Xbox One consoles are still sold with Kinect, they'll include it. That's a higher ration than I personally expected.

Well sure! If they don't want the game that's the pack in, it adds no value. Like PS3 + Killzone. Killzone sold something like 3 million units per iteration, going by the internet's probably made up numbers. oops. Out of 80 million console owners, you're looking at <4% of PS3 buyers wanting KZ. Ergo a KZ bundle is only going to be of value to 4% of potential shoppers. To everyone else, it's $50 extra on a game you didn't want. Even if the bundle is only $20 more, it's $20 you could put towards a game you do actually want.

I'd like to see Microsoft take a leaf from the book of [strike]Eli[/strike] Sony Europe at the PlayStation 4 launch. I bought the launch Killzone bundle that included the console, an extra controller, a retail game on disc and the PS4 camera - for £449. Broken down that is the core PS4 console (£349), second DualShock 4 (£45), KZSF on disc (£60) and PS4 Camera (£45). Hardware peripherals like cameras and controllers have high profit margins so they are easiest to include without taking actual losses.

They could also add value by increasing the HDD size. I was utterly shocked yesterday when I watched the Microsoft's Gamescon conference to see if I wanted an integral 1Tb HDD I've had to buy the COD:AW bundle which was £429, £80 more than the existing 512Gb HDD console + game bundles at £349. £80 more for a 1Tb HDD that cost less than £50. That is a joke.

For Microsoft to compete and offer value, they need to understand what constitutes value to the average consumer. What I'm seeing is the same awful profiteering in the way they priced wifi adaptors and external HDDs on the 360. It's clear they are prioritising their profits over genuine value for gamers.

Not cool, Microsoft, not cool. I'm actually more pissed off about this today than I was yesterday. What the hell are they thinking? I mean, really?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'd like to see Microsoft take a leaf from the book of [strike]Eli[/strike] Sony Europe at the PlayStation 4 launch. I bought the launch Killzone bundle that included the console, an extra controller, a retail game on disc and the PS4 camera - for £449. Broken down that is the core PS4 console (£349), second DualShock 4 (£45), KZSF on disc (£60) and PS4 Camera (£45). Hardware peripherals like cameras and controllers have high profit margins so they are easiest to include without taking actual losses.

Well they can't really do that because bundling their camera hiked the price $100. A second controller can be good value, but I'd rather see that accompanied with a local 2-player game. Packing in a device that you won't get to use without spending some more money seems a bit pointless to me.

I'd probably try targeted bundles. eg. Girls party bundle with Kinect, Dance, whatever party games. Family bundle with a couple of 4 player local coop games. Targeting like that can make it easier for mainstream consumers. You wouldn't need to know what the games are to know if they're what you want, because they'd be selected to be what you want based on your shopping criteria. Could also do a TV bundle with some added media value in terms of credit. I don't know how that'd work out in terms of execution, but it must be doable.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well they can't really do that because bundling their camera hiked the price $100. A second controller can be good value, but I'd rather see that accompanied with a local 2-player game. Packing in a device that you won't get to use without spending some more money seems a bit pointless to me.

Ha! No, not Kinect because ithe core build price is probably too high currently. But how about an extra controller and 1Tb HDDs as standard? Cost is going to be less than under £30 and then you compare it to PS4 where the second controller is £40 and the HDD is £50 plus you have to do it - easy enough except for people who doubt their abilities.

Include hardware at close-to-cost. The COD:AW bundle is clearly a a move to get people desperate for a 1Tb HDD to splash out extra. Microsoft would no doubt claim the value is in the limited edition case but I think most people know that's bullshit.

 

[BRiT]

They should have made all SKUs have 1TB standard without any increase in cost to the consumer. Then throw in a second controller too. That would crate perception of value while maintaining their current price of entry and minimizing their internal costs.

Alas...

 

[wco81]

I'm not convinced there are any cool Kinect games coming to justify the value of it's inclusion in the package for those who see little value on gestures or voice control but there probably are people who will always purchase, budget permitting, the all-inclusive package with all the options in the box.

Yeah all they had to show at the unveiling were still more tech demos of Kinect, not actual innovative uses in gameplay.

Meanwhile, they've been paying for exclusives and even funding development of first-party games.

Yet they could not demonstrate Kinect 2 games doing things that the original Kinect didn't already do, mainly dance games and such.

Sony better be careful about doing something similarly stupid with VR, like packing it in and making it more expensive. It will always ben an optional accessory and the impact will be limited to a niche.

 

[BRiT]

Yet they could not demonstrate Kinect 2 games doing things that the original Kinect didn't already do, mainly dance games and such.

Everyone forgets about them showing off XBox Fitness.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think they should have focused on having a number of cool tech demos and small download able games ready for Kinect at launch. Give me $10-15 Kinect games. I'll buy them.

 

[wco81]

XBox Fitness is a game?

$500 is a lot to spend to monitor your pulse. There are wearable devices that can do it for a lot less.

 

[BRiT]

XBox Fitness is a game?

$500 is a lot to spend to monitor your pulse. There are wearable devices that can do it for a lot less.

This shows your ignorance.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

XBox Fitness is a game?

$500 is a lot to spend to monitor your pulse. There are wearable devices that can do it for a lot less.

Why spend money on gym membership and a personal trainer when running and down the stairs is free?

 

[temesgen]

This shows your ignorance.

I mentioned Xbox Fitness in my first post, I also gave lots of examples of what they could have done but the only reply I got to that was defense of Just Dance a title I criticize bc IMO it does not make good use of the tech in Kinect 2.0. MS presumably did not spend millions on Kinect 2.0 tech and include it in the original SKU to make games like Just Dance because that title uses Kinect tech in a very very bolt on, check box, cheap sort of way.

The point behind my post was and is that MS clearly didn't extend their vision for the tech into actual software and if they are relying on third parties to implement Kinect 2.0 into innovative and relevant ways the tech is effectively dead. We'll likely see some use of voice commands and other basic stuff but it will never do anything that justifies the investment in the technology if MS doesn't get involved.

 

[fehu]

Why spend money on gym membership and a personal trainer when running and down the stairs is free?

worst example possible