Xbox pulls into UK second place
- Thread starter Johnny Awesome
- Start date
Why, because as usual you do the same thing over and over again? we've had this argument before, and I'm nto goign to go through the same BS.
Quote:
I can at least admit that publishers have always inflated sales numbers, including MS. Can you at least admit that Nintendo does the same thing so we don't have the same discusson regarding this over and over?
Teasy, your "nintendo can do no wrong" attitude is completely pathetic. Nintendo flat out lied at E3 and said they sold 2.2 million gamecubes in north america. That's a flat out lie. They inflated launch sales numbers in japan as well. It's not better or no worse then anything MS has done. keep in mind that you argued you had no reason to bleieve the other lower sales numbers for gamecube at launch in a thread months back.
Just like you believed the sales numbers Nintendo oringinally quoted for Japan at launch. Even though a number of sources claimed it was bogus! omigod, you mean someone actually caught nintendo in the act? wow!
Did MCV take 100% of sales in europe?
As I said above teasy WHERE did MS go back and change this? I can admit that I was wrong and someone (ed fries I think) said they sold 500,000 in europe at E3. Even the bloody link you posted says that MS said that during E3. But I want to know where they went back later and changed this. Did it happen in a press release? Since I don't remember seeing that. What I'm saying is that they didn't change anything after E3. I honestly think Ed Fries slipped up and said the wrong thing.
Go ahead and post the link please.
No, the reason I'm not suprised your suddenly willing to drop this discussion is because of the quotes I posted earlier.
What is truly pathetic is that you cut out a part of my comment when you quoted it to make it look like I'd said something I hadn't.
I said:
"Yes I can admit its possible Nintendo have inflated numbers in the past, they very likely have at some times. But they have not been caught inflating numbers anywhere near to the degree MS have and I still trust them far more then MS."[/b]
You cut out that part I highlighted to make it look like I would not admit Nintendo could inflate numbers.. that is pathetic.
Is it? I'm not so sure. Why haven't you argued with Ben's post?
As I said earlier how do I know that your not looking at Nintendo's real numbers vs independent XBox numbers and saying "well XBox has sold more, we know that, and these numbers show the opposite so Nintendo must be lying with these numbers"? Independent numbers are never 100%. Independent numbers could say 1.6 million and real numbers could be closer to 2.2 million.
When was this, exactly what numbers are you talking about here?
Where did I mention believing any GameCube japanese launch numbers? Also what sources claimed those numbers were wrong BTW?
MCV?.. sorry you've lost me now, refresh my memory on which MCV numbers your talking about.
I remember allot of people talking about this and seeing a couple of short articles on the matter. I'll have to look for those articles I suppose.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1019&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]
If you'd only ADMIT that nintendo has done this recently. Nitnendo has recently inflated numbers. During it's US launch, it's japanese launch and during E3. yet you continue to ignore. that. If you'd only admit that ONLY then am I willing to drop the discussion.
teasy, i cut out the part that I'm fine with. I saw that you said it's possible. however you walked right around the FACT Nintendo has inflated numbers recently. you simply ignore that and claim it never happend. That's what is "pathetic"! Can you at least admit that nintendo has also recently done this, or are you rabidly defending them again?
As I wrote above, I focused on the part of your sentance where you make it look like nintendo hasn't done this as recently as anyone else. Which simply isn't true. Also i focused on the part of your response where you try to make it seem like what Nintendo has done s isn't nearly as bad. Simply put, you added conditiopns to your response in some pathetic attempt to make it look like nintendo hasn't done this recently this generation. Even though it's right in front of you to plainly see! I really don't think there's a person here that can't see that.
Teasy, it was a Lie! Nitnendo had shipped that manay console, but had NOT sold that many consles by May. At least MS reported realistic numbers for North America.
Put 2 and 2 together Teasy. WHY would MS use lower numbers IF they didn't have too? As I said above, it was BS. both consoles had not reached 2 million in sales in May. That was EVEN before the price drops! remmber that, when the actual console sales picked up.
It was right after the japanese launch! nintendo claimed how much they sold, and indpendant sources claimed MUCH lower numbers. You argued that you had no reason to believe anything but the Nintendo numbers.
SIGH! You claimed this months back. Ok, what month did Nitnendo launch in Japan again, and I'll go back and find you post.
Um, hellow, was it NOT MCV that disputed the nimbers MS claimed they sold in Europe at E3? You just posted that earlier in this thread.
Yes, short articles and no evidence of them actually "changing anything". That's just my point.
BenSkywalker
Regular
They were quoting NPD data Quincy, not real numbers. We had this discussion at the time, it isn't revisionist. Both consoles were almost certainly at 2Million sold by May, recall that the Cube had ~1.3Million last holiday season with the XB at ~1.5Million. You think MS only sold ~100K units between January 1 and late May in the US? Looking at E3 data Sony was 3-4Million million units ahead of what NPD reported in shipped terms(no chance in hell there were 3-4Million in the pipe, not even close).
Hi Ben, what you just said didn't completely make sense.
Xbox was around 1.5 million after Christmas I agree on that point. However, to get to 1.8 million in May, they would have needed to sell 300,000 unts in a little over 4 months during the slowest part of the year (From a sales standpoint). There's certainly no way they (Nintendo or MS) could have sold 500,000 - 700,000 units to reach 2.2 million as Nintendo menitoned. If the consles were selling that well, they wouldn't have bothered with the price cuts so soon.
Xbox was around 1.5 million after Christmas I agree on that point. However, to get to 1.8 million in May, they would have needed to sell 300,000 unts in a little over 4 months during the slowest part of the year (From a sales standpoint). There's certainly no way they (Nintendo or MS) could have sold 500,000 - 700,000 units to reach 2.2 million as Nintendo menitoned. If the consles were selling that well, they wouldn't have bothered with the price cuts so soon.
BenSkywalker
Regular
Quincy-
If that doesn't show up properly Marconelly! posted the chart in the this thread-
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2351
That is based on NPD numbers and we know their coverage is in the ~60% range. Nintendo was averaging around 125K per month with E3 occuring in late May it would work out to somewhere in the 500K-700K range from January to when they made the announcement. For MS they were averaging closer to 180K per month. Even if we took NPD numbers as absolute from January to E3 MS still would have been right around 2Million.
If that doesn't show up properly Marconelly! posted the chart in the this thread-
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2351
That is based on NPD numbers and we know their coverage is in the ~60% range. Nintendo was averaging around 125K per month with E3 occuring in late May it would work out to somewhere in the 500K-700K range from January to when they made the announcement. For MS they were averaging closer to 180K per month. Even if we took NPD numbers as absolute from January to E3 MS still would have been right around 2Million.
I'd really like to know where you are getting that NDP are only in the 60% range. Granted they can't cover the only market, but I really don't see where you are getting this from. As far as i can tell you're making that number up to support a previous argument you had. IIMo I think they cover closer to 80% of the market, along with a few other independant sources. Walmart sell lot's of products, but I don't think they make up 40% of Nintendo and Xbox console sales.
E3 was around May 21st if I remember right.
Even is what you say is true (and it's not), Nintendo STILL wouldn't be at 2.2 million units. As you mentioned earlier after Christmas nintendo had sold 1.3 million units. Even if you included 5 full months at 125,000 units they would still be considerably shy of 2.2 million claimed at E3, it would put them at 1.8 million roughly.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Well, we've been over this a billion times, but NPD tracks only about 60-70% of sales. It's consistent with Sony, MS, and Nintendo numbers after you filter out their bullshit.
For instance, PGR was listed at selling 1 million copies about the same time that NPD numbers * 1.5 + UK sales of PGR would have equaled one million copies. Same goes for Halo at 2 million, or GTA3 at 6 million in the US or whatever it is now, I forget.
The theory tracks pretty well. Take NPD * 1.5 to get the real US numbers.
For instance, PGR was listed at selling 1 million copies about the same time that NPD numbers * 1.5 + UK sales of PGR would have equaled one million copies. Same goes for Halo at 2 million, or GTA3 at 6 million in the US or whatever it is now, I forget.
The theory tracks pretty well. Take NPD * 1.5 to get the real US numbers.
BenSkywalker
Regular
Quincy-
WM isn't the only chain that NPD doesn't track, and it isn't just the Box and Cube.
http://vip-us.playstation.com/news/PressReleases/415014851.asp
The September NPD numbers have the PS2 at 11.29Million units sold while Sony shipped 11.3 by the beginning of May. Do you really think that Sony has only sold 14.113Million units total in the US by the beginning of October after having shipped 11.3 by the beginning of May? Johnny already metioned other stats to back this up.
I've explained ways of checking this out for anyone to use, those that have noticed that the ~60% figure is about right(compare NPD's annual numbers to those of any of the publishers or hardware comapnies as an example).
Actually, my stating 125K for N was likely a bit low, even then at five full months they would have been at 1.925Million(you can look at the charts and see that MS wasn't 50% ahead of Nintendo with the exception of January). I'm not saying Nintendo's numbers were absolutely correct(and I haven't, although they could have been) just that they were likely quite close while MS was understating their numbers considerably(which is easily shown even if NPD was correct- they were @1.5Million at the beginning of the year and sold well over 400K by NPD between January and April, excluding May completely).
BTW- if your stance on Nintendo having a considerably younger demographic is truly what you believe, then WM should have a larger impact on Nintendo's sales then the other two. I don't follow that line of thought myself, but if you honestly believe it you should keep it in mind when discussing sales between MS and Nintendo. Also, the XBox had a 800K lead last time we went over the numbers and adjusted them while they only had a 500K lead without adjustment. What I say applies for all companies and has nothing to do with any particular discussion(I've been telling everyone NPD has covered the same rate since before the Cube or Box launched- it has nothing to do with supporting any particular argument).
WM isn't the only chain that NPD doesn't track, and it isn't just the Box and Cube.
http://vip-us.playstation.com/news/PressReleases/415014851.asp
The September NPD numbers have the PS2 at 11.29Million units sold while Sony shipped 11.3 by the beginning of May. Do you really think that Sony has only sold 14.113Million units total in the US by the beginning of October after having shipped 11.3 by the beginning of May? Johnny already metioned other stats to back this up.
I've explained ways of checking this out for anyone to use, those that have noticed that the ~60% figure is about right(compare NPD's annual numbers to those of any of the publishers or hardware comapnies as an example).
Actually, my stating 125K for N was likely a bit low, even then at five full months they would have been at 1.925Million(you can look at the charts and see that MS wasn't 50% ahead of Nintendo with the exception of January). I'm not saying Nintendo's numbers were absolutely correct(and I haven't, although they could have been) just that they were likely quite close while MS was understating their numbers considerably(which is easily shown even if NPD was correct- they were @1.5Million at the beginning of the year and sold well over 400K by NPD between January and April, excluding May completely).
BTW- if your stance on Nintendo having a considerably younger demographic is truly what you believe, then WM should have a larger impact on Nintendo's sales then the other two. I don't follow that line of thought myself, but if you honestly believe it you should keep it in mind when discussing sales between MS and Nintendo. Also, the XBox had a 800K lead last time we went over the numbers and adjusted them while they only had a 500K lead without adjustment. What I say applies for all companies and has nothing to do with any particular discussion(I've been telling everyone NPD has covered the same rate since before the Cube or Box launched- it has nothing to do with supporting any particular argument).
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/021108/72/34j2z.html
Total U.S. sales* of video-game consoles, in millions of units:
Sony PlayStation 2 11.2
Microsoft Xbox 2.2
Nintendo GameCube 2.7
*From introduction through September 2002
Source: DFC Intelligence Special Offer: $10 off
Total U.S. sales* of video-game consoles, in millions of units:
Sony PlayStation 2 11.2
Microsoft Xbox 2.2
Nintendo GameCube 2.7
*From introduction through September 2002
Source: DFC Intelligence Special Offer: $10 off
BenSkywalker
Regular
I checked these guys out, they use NPD data. Either the people at Yahoo reposted the wrong numbers backwards, or DFC posted the wrong numbers backwards.