XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[digitalwanderer]

you don't think having a 10 person friend list in which you can share your game content be it a physical disc purchased at a store or digital content purchased on line with out even having to see the person isn't innovative and forward thinking.

I sure do think it's innovative and forward thinking, in a draconian and controlling kind of way. With the recent NSA revelations and M$'s ties, no I ain't real wild about M$ having me link up all my friends through them online.

That just my opinion, yours is obviously different.

You add nothing to the discussion.

Thank you, it's a gift.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I think it's possible to focus so much on where you want to go that you don't focus enough on where you are and how best to get there. I think this is a lot of MS's problem ATM.

I think MS's biggest problem is the fact that they are not used to competition and are unable to deal with a situation that they can't either bury or buy their way out of.

The whole outfit has become too entrenched and inflexible over the last decade or so. They are so used to getting their own way in the PC space that they develop these systems in ivory towers and expect the rest of the world to bend itself out of shape to accommodate them. And when it doesn't happen they get all bent out of shape and dig their heels in. Eventually they and spin out a new product that borrows bits from the best working systems carefully reworked as being innovative, never before seen, ideas.

 

[MrFox]

What if Microsoft makes the DRM opt in? So you can have a choice either:

1. PS4 style.
2. Xbox One style.

So if you like the Xbox style DRM you can choose that and if you like the PS4 style you can choose that but once you choose you're stuck that way for a time/permanent.

You mean like the PS4 where you can buy everything day 1 in digital if you don't mind the DRM, or you can buy the games you want to keep forever in disc form, without DRM restrictions?

Yes, that's a good idea, no need to choose between the two.

 

[dobwal]

So how do you choose which ten people are your best friends out of all the people you know who game, or the people you game with? Does MS expect you to have no more than ten good friends? What are you supposed to do with the others, who might be a little disappointed with you? Sorry guys I don't like you enough to let you share a game with me. Seems like a good way of setting up divisions amongst your family\friends.

The ones with the biggest libraries. If you and 9 friends want to go to a party, do you not go because everyone wants to ride with you even though there are 4 cars waiting to take you all to your destination?

 

[mrcorbo]

I think MS's biggest problem is the fact that they are not used to competition and are unable to deal with a situation that they can't either bury or buy their way out of.

The whole outfit has become too entrenched and inflexible over the last decade or so. They are so used to getting their own way in the PC space that they develop these systems in ivory towers and expect the rest of the world to bend itself out of shape to accommodate them. And when it doesn't happen they get all bent out of shape and dig their heels in. Eventually they and spin out a new product that borrows bits from the best working systems carefully reworked as being innovative, never before seen, ideas.

I don't agree. I think that assessment is based more on what you want to believe is true than what an objective evaluation of their performance over the last decade would reveal, but that's an argument for another thread.

 

[Jwm]

As the family sharing gets more fleshed out it does sound like a system that can work.

* Sounds like only one of the ten can play a title at any given time (I am ok with this, it is easy to communicate over the system and ask for a time to play or request that someone stop to give you some time, etc. Easier than sharing a disc with friends that live a few hours away, or more.)

This could be seen as having the potential to hurt sales, but I disagree. It still has that issue of disc based sharing - most people like to play around game launch so with ten people trying to share time.

I borrow some time from your game, find that I really like it but hate that our group is hogging the game. So I DD a copy for myself.

* If more than one person in the group owns a copy, does that mean more than one can play at any given time? I would like to see the answer to this if they even have one yet.

* Overall I find this to be a good feature, I usually only share with a few people anyway. I would not have lost my copy of AW with this system!!!

--

I thought PS4 was going to offer DD if you buy the retail copy, but now I am not finding that info? With X1 I get DD if I buy the retail copy and on any console that I own. If PS4 is using a similar setup how are they going to check that I just don't keep playing the DD version when I sold my retail copy?

Or is PS4 more traditional? DD is just same day release but is sold separate from retail. Negating the big reason for having a more robust system of checks.

 

[Xenus]

For those who didn't read the arstechnica article (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/) - the sidebar with Mehdi claims that you can name anyone to your "family" to share your library with. IF I am reading it correctly (and if I remember correctly about the 10 family member limit) that means I could name 10 people around the country who are my "family" and they could do the same with me, and we would all have access to each others games. That really sounds far too good to be true.

It likely is. Sony had something similiar at the beginning of this generation where you could activate the install on 3 to 5 devices at the same time. That got shot down once the publishers started complaining about people sharing games with their friends.

 

[BoardBonobo]

The ones with the biggest libraries. If you and 9 friends want to go to a party, do you not go because everyone wants to ride with you even though there are 4 cars waiting to take you all to your destination?

What if you and 10 friends wanted to go?

 

[Tap In]

Oh boy here comes that long standing MS hate. Its not even rational anymore. When confronted with examples of counterpoints of reason, the last resort becomes the monopolist, corporate, mindless, souless argument.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

As the family sharing gets more fleshed out it does sound like a system that can work.

* Sounds like only one of the ten can play a title at any given time (I am ok with this, it is easy to communicate over the system and ask for a time to play or request that someone stop to give you some time, etc. Easier than sharing a disc with friends that live a few hours away, or more.)

This could be seen as having the potential to hurt sales, but I disagree. It still has that issue of disc based sharing - most people like to play around game launch so with ten people trying to share time.

I borrow some time from your game, find that I really like it but hate that our group is hogging the game. So I DD a copy for myself.

* If more than one person in the group owns a copy, does that mean more than one can play at any given time? I would like to see the answer to this if they even have one yet.

* Overall I find this to be a good feature, I usually only share with a few people anyway. I would not have lost my copy of AW with this system!!!

--

I thought PS4 was going to offer DD if you buy the retail copy, but now I am not finding that info? With X1 I get DD if I buy the retail copy and on any console that I own. If PS4 is using a similar setup how are they going to check that I just don't keep playing the DD version when I sold my retail copy?

Or is PS4 more traditional? DD is just same day release but is sold separate from retail. Negating the big reason for having a more robust system of checks.

PS3/vita already has day one digital. You can even pre-download the games like steam.

If you buy the disc based games on the ps3, some have installs before you can play and some install while you are playing. Almost all install something to the HDD but not the full game. So you alway need the disc in the drive to play those games. Its a trade off to be able to rent/sell games without some huge DRM system in place.

 

[Jwm]

PS3/vita already has day one digital. You can even pre-download the games like steam.

If you buy the disc based games on the ps3, some have installs before you can play and some install while you are playing. Almost all install something to the HDD but not the full game. So you alway need the disc in the drive to play those games. Its a trade off to be able to rent/sell games without some huge DRM system in place.

Correct, what I was looking for is that I thought PS4 would give you a DD copy with a retail copy. I thought it was in the original reveal, but watching it again they just say same day.

So with X1 you have that advantage, which then creates all the needs for catching where a disc goes to know what to do with your DD copy.

Edit: so does the X1 DRM stem more from the ability to do share DD games in all these new ways, and just the PR message went wonky? I still think it would be smart of them to offer an offline disc in tray mode.

 

[3dilettante]

The PR muddle is confusing me, but can individual games be exempted from the Xbox One's server check-in requirement?
Things like a free F2P, demo, and promotional software have an incentive to be copied far and wide.

 

[Tap In]

Originally Posted by From Ars Techinca
It's a "family" affair

Since its announcement, there has been some confusion over the details of sharing your Xbox One game library with up to ten "family members." Mehdi couldn't give comprehensive details but he did clarify some things.

For one, a family member doesn't have to be a "blood relative," he said, eliminating the extremely unlikely possibility that the Xbox One would include a built-in blood testing kit. For another, they don't have to live in the primary owner's house—I could name a friend that lives 3,000 miles away as one of my "family members" Mehdi said.

You'll be able to link other Xbox Live accounts as having shared access to your library when you first set up a system, and will also be able to add them later on (though specific details of how you manage these relationships is still not being discussed). The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time. All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area.

how the hell is Ms not talking about this every day?

If it truly works this way it is as good if not better than sharing (give me a f'n break that 10 people is not enough) not to mention you can probably adjust the list from time to time


this is the digital version of disc sharing , if they next announce you can trade your digital content in for credit they are really just shifting the same model to digital but with some generous restrictions, and ability to track usage and as noted can be shared anywhere in the world

 

[AlNom]

Yeah... my first thought was that it now sounds like a more flexible approach to PS3's system activation - not tied to the system but people, and there are more activations. I know of one person with 5 PS3s, one account, and can't share anymore...

But anyways, that sounds like it solves the lending issue between friends. It does confirm only one person being able to play at a time (like with physical copies *ahem*).

Horrible PR skills so far.

 

[ERP]

The PR muddle is confusing me, but can individual games be exempted from the Xbox One's server check-in requirement?
Things like a free F2P, demo, and promotional software have an incentive to be copied far and wide.

Surely they would be free downloads?
I would imagine it's also possible to have a disk with multiple licenses on it, but I don't think you'll see a lot of F2P games on disk, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Dunno what difference it makes, all the f2p games need a connection. How would you buy your new hat?!!!

Some of the f2p games for pc can be found on disk in stores in collection packs, although it just might be a download link.

 

[3dilettante]

Surely they would be free downloads?
I would imagine it's also possible to have a disk with multiple licenses on it, but I don't think you'll see a lot of F2P games on disk, but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm still confused over whether free downloads would be treated differently.

 

[dobwal]

The PR muddle is confusing me, but can individual games be exempted from the Xbox One's server check-in requirement?
Things like a free F2P, demo, and promotional software have an incentive to be copied far and wide.

I don't think the 24 hour check is for games per se. I thinks it a hardware check to discourage hacking. Disabling game functionality is just a way to force you back online. So its immaterial if its F2P or free in general.

I might be wrong though. Is it possible to break whatever disc based drm the XB1 may use without hacking the hardware? If so, the 24 check won't discourage pirating at all.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

how the hell is Ms not talking about this every day?

If it truly works this way it is as good if not better than sharing (give me a f'n break that 10 people is not enough) not to mtntion you can probably adjust the lsit from time to time

Probably because they're still working out the mechanics. And let's not get crazy here, if you're one of the folks with a general issue about needing internet access, this doesn't help in any way but it's certainly an interesting concession and I can see it appealing a lot.

Of course, because it's related to the DRM issue, Microsoft are probably terrified of mentioning it

 

[temesgen]

This issue with DRM is starting to get interesting, we had some pretty candid statements from Activision CEO and EA's COO Peter Moore yesterday about DRM but that doesn't seem to match up with what is being reported here:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-...ar-policies-across-both-consoles-say-sources/