XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[astrograd]

I'm not talking about speculating on what one company might be doing, I mean one what we know they are doing right now.

In that case, we don't know what Sony is actually doing until we get some clarification (which we won't ever get cause the press doesn't care enough to even know wtf RFID is).

As it stands right now, I cannot trade a physical game hand to hand with a friend on the XBONE correct?.

Correct. X1 doesn't block used games, but at least initially you won't be able to lend/rent games. Though they claim to be working on a feature to allow that.

I don't think blocking resale is even legal in some countries

No, it's legal to do what MS is doing. Resale of a game disc isn't the same as reselling a game license.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Would it not be viable for MS to dish out time-trial codes a.k.a. digital rentals ?

I see no reason why they couldn't offer a digital rental service, directly from the publishers.

 

[Tap In]

Bluray has a serial number for each disc.
Sony also have an RFID tech patent, they could use that to identify discs.

yes but once the serial number is used by a person converting it to digital DL, there is still nothing to stop a disc holder installing it on another machine. Even if they have a check when online the user could just play off line

 

[trainplane]

I don't buy many used games anymore (after buying a few that had horrible scratches, mostly on Xbox 360 since their DVD's tend to scratch a lot) but I do buy older games for $10-15 US. What will be interesting to see is how DRM affects prices of old games. There have been a lot of arguments on this forum about this but now we have a real life test case--Xbox One vs PS4. We'll see in about 2 years.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Would it not be viable for MS to dish out time-trial codes a.k.a. digital rentals ?

My personal speculation is that the 24 hour window was specifically chosen for future rentals of digital as well as physical copies.

Otherwise, why not 2 days? 3 days? a week? Something that would be far more tolerant of extreme cases of internet instability?

Regards,
SB

 

[DrJay24]

sounds like a crappy system when a game is 50 gigs instead of 1-4 gigs.

Ever heard of Steam? Lots of large games there, you can even pre-load them (PS3 has had this as well). I'll take the crappy choice over forced MS anti-consumer DRM. Good thing we have a free market, we both end up happy.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't buy many used games anymore (after buying a few that had horrible scratches, mostly on Xbox 360 since their DVD's tend to scratch a lot) but I do buy older games for $10-15 US. What will be interesting to see is how DRM affects prices of old games. There have been a lot of arguments on this forum about this but now we have a real life test case--Xbox One vs PS4. We'll see in about 2 years.

Being publisher driven we may end up seeing something similar to Steam (publishers set the price of their games on Steam, not Steam). Where you see dramatic decreases in price after the initial 2-6 months for most titles.

It is extremely rare for a title to stay at release pricing for longer than that. Just getting to the 4-6 month period at full initial retail pricing is pretty darn rare.

Part of the reason this is possible is the fact that there are NO used games. Hence publishers aways get a portion of the money when a game is sold.

When something like Borderlands went on sale for 7.99 USD with all DLC, that's still more money than they would have gotten if the game had been sold used.

Regards,
SB

 

[Kb-Smoker]

My personal speculation is that the 24 hour window was specifically chosen for future rentals of digital as well as physical copies.

Otherwise, why not 2 days? 3 days? a week? Something that would be far more tolerant of extreme cases of internet instability?

Regards,
SB

Well if we go by the report at first it was 7 mins!!!

This was changed after the outrage about that "deal with it" guy on twitter.

 

[eastmen]

Ever heard of Steam? Lots of large games there, you can even pre-load them (PS3 has had this as well). I'll take the crappy choice over forced MS anti-consumer DRM. Good thing we have a free market, we both end up happy.

yes , a few months ago I went to gamestop and bought bioshock infinite , went home and installed it and then loaded it up on steam. Not a single download except a game update on my end.

Still has forced Valve anti consumer DRM though since I can't trade in that disc I bought.


Steam like the one lets me buy discs and DD and never have to switch discs to play games. Unlike it seems the ps4 which forces me to keep a disc inside it to play unless I use their anti consumer Drm filled Digital download.


Its funny how it works

 

[Jwm]

My personal speculation is that the 24 hour window was specifically chosen for future rentals of digital as well as physical copies.

Otherwise, why not 2 days? 3 days? a week? Something that would be far more tolerant of extreme cases of internet instability?

Regards,
SB

Could always make a phone verification system that gives a code in cases of extended outages. Dunno, really hope they go with disc in tray hybrid setup though for offline consoles.

 

[trainplane]

Being publisher driven we may end up seeing something similar to Steam (publishers set the price of their games on Steam, not Steam). Where you see dramatic decreases in price after the initial 2-6 months for most titles.

It is extremely rare for a title to stay at release pricing for longer than that. Just getting to the 4-6 month period at full initial retail pricing is pretty darn rare.

Part of the reason this is possible is the fact that there are NO used games. Hence publishers aways get a portion of the money when a game is sold.

When something like Borderlands went on sale for 7.99 USD with all DLC, that's still more money than they would have gotten if the game had been sold used.

Regards,
SB

You might be right, Steam has some crazy sales for games only 1-2 years old (Sleeping Dogs for less than $10) but the question is how much will older games cost on the PS4 vs Xbox One? Will the PS4 be cheaper on average because the used games market created extra inventory or was this so minuscule that it didn't really matter? We'll know in a year or so. I won't make any definitive statements or I might get egg on my face in that time.

 

[astrograd]

You still need an online check to confirm the disc is playable. With out that the whole system is useless.

Nope. That's the point of why it exists. Doesn't require online at all. Pubs set the limits when they print the discs, then everything can happen offline.

 

[eastmen]

You might be right, Steam has some crazy sales for games only 1-2 years old (Sleeping Dogs for less than $10) but the question is how much will older games cost on the PS4 vs Xbox One? Will the PS4 be cheaper on average because the used games market created extra inventory or was this so minuscule that it didn't really matter? We'll know in a year or so. I won't make any definitive statements or I might get egg on my face in that time.

the one will have a used market also. The one may be able to decrease in price faster because used games wont show up days later but months later on the platform and thus publishers can enjoy higher intital sales

 

[Silent_Buddha]

the one will have a used market also. The one may be able to decrease in price faster because used games wont show up days later but months later on the platform and thus publishers can enjoy higher intital sales

Not only that but Publishers could potentially set a fee at a retailer in order to allow the resale of their games.

And that fee could be sliding scale. Either a percentage of what it currently retails for, or some set amount that goes down as time goes by (to reflect the decreased desirability of older games).

In that way a publisher and developer would always be able to get something whenever a copy of their game is sold.

Regards,
SB

 

[Betanumerical]

the one will have a used market also. The one may be able to decrease in price faster because used games wont show up days later but months later on the platform and thus publishers can enjoy higher intital sales

What happens if a publisher disallows used games. No used games market. So its not 'it will', its 'it will if the publisher allows it' thats taking control away and some people don't like it.

 

[eastmen]

What happens if a publisher disallows used games. No used games market. So its not 'it will', its 'it will if the publisher allows it' thats taking control away and some people don't like it.

your implying that its either or. If a single publisher says no to used games that doesn't mean they all do.


It will also be interesting to see if Ms can remotely disable a disc some how. That could allow a publisher to buy back an older game for x off their new one and kill a disc out there making used games.

 

[BRiT]

What happens if a publisher opts to not publish on a platform that allows them to control the used games market? Or delay releasing on the non-publisher friendly platforms for a 3 month window?

So many different situations that could still play out in many different ways.

 

[Betanumerical]

your implying that its either or. If a single publisher says no to used games that doesn't mean they all do.


It will also be interesting to see if Ms can remotely disable a disc some how. That could allow a publisher to buy back an older game for x off their new one and kill a disc out there making used games.

What I was saying was that if a publisher opts to disallow used games then there is no used games market for that game. This is something which doesnt gel well with me at all.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Publishers could block used games on PS4 if they wanted. Sony just isn't providing a unified system for doing that.

 

[eastmen]

What happens if a publisher opts to not publish on a platform that allows them to control the used games market? Or delay releasing on the non-publisher friendly platforms for a 3 month window?

So many different situations that could still play out in many different ways.

exactly

What if Fall out 4 launches first on xbox one. Then say 3 months later it launches on Ps4 but at the same time the one gets the first DLC where the ps4 has to wait another 3 months. Or worse if it doesn't get the first dlc cause its exclusive to the one.

There is a lot that can happen.

like I said , Ms wouldn't have done this unless they have binding contracts with publishers to help make the one more attractive than the loss of some freedoms.