Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[astrograd]

Of course not. The March 6th event had nothing to do with the next Xbox / Durango.

If you are talking about the date BClifford claimed then you're wrong. Again, there are lots of MS internal meetings this time of year and there most certainly was one this past week (4th - 7th) that absolutely did have the new Xbox as a centerpiece for the conference (their F14 START meeting). It was invitation only and featured a deep dive, retail strategies, and software lineup meetings as well as meetings geared towards general entertainment aspects of the platform. The deep dive was the 6th I think.

That was wholly internal and invite-only, so odds of leaks from it are slim to none. This isn't to suggest BClifford wasn't utterly and wholly full of shit. He likely was but I've no idea...I am noting this mainly because I've seen ppl here mistakenly post that there was nothing on the 6th for Durango and they are factually wrong on that. I'd prefer misinformation to be kept in check, hence me noting that TechFest wasn't where Durango was featured.

 

[astrograd]

I thought media were invited.

Don't think so. There was supposedly going to be one guy from the press who was planning on sitting outside the hotel it was being held at to see if he recognized anyone going in (Durango games were showed off). This would have been where RARE showed their recent demo they had mentioned on twitter. That journalist may have been joking though. Shame, I'd have liked to know which devs/studios were there to show stuff off.

I never said that Kinect isn't attractive to casuals.

MS probably wants to keep Kinect 2 as a drawcard for the full priced 720, for people who want Kinect they can get the Xbox 360 superslim for $200 and for people who want something like Apple TV, Roku etc they can get Xbox TV for $100.

Xbox TV also might act as an extender for 720 as speculated, so you can stream games from your 720 in the family room to the Xbox TV in your bedroom for example.

The thing I don't get about your lil theory here (which I agree has some evidential backing to it btw) is that when MS first mentioned XTV in the Yukon leak they explicitly say 720 will have full XTV compatibility built in, so that makes me wonder why they would even bother with the purported 'Xbox 361' STB for casuals if they clearly aim to hit the mediaphile demographic with 720 outta the gate.

Furthermore, Kinect 2.0 and the likelihood of a subsidized payment plan make me think they are more likely than not to go after these 2 demographics day 1. So are you suggesting that they would maybe have a super cheap media STB in Xbox 361 AND a subsidized 720 for these markets? I dunno. I suppose the 361 could be their low end STB and the 720 their high end STB for these consumers, potentially useful in eventually encouraging them to upgrade to 720 down the road.

And the streaming stuff you mention here should be doable to any device that is connected to the internet and has SmartGlass compatibility (which any 360 does) I think. That wast the impression I got from Yukon at least.

 

[BRiT]

If you are talking about the date BClifford claimed then you're wrong. Again, there are lots of MS internal meetings this time of year and there most certainly was one this past week (4th - 7th) that absolutely did have the new Xbox as a centerpiece for the conference (their F14 START meeting). It was invitation only and featured a deep dive, retail strategies, and software lineup meetings as well as meetings geared towards general entertainment aspects of the platform. The deep dive was the 6th I think.

That was wholly internal and invite-only, so odds of leaks from it are slim to none. This isn't to suggest BClifford wasn't utterly and wholly full of shit. He likely was but I've no idea...I am noting this mainly because I've seen ppl here mistakenly post that there was nothing on the 6th for Durango and they are factually wrong on that. I'd prefer misinformation to be kept in check, hence me noting that TechFest wasn't where Durango was featured.

The claim was outsiders would be invited to see an XB720 / Durango lineup. That was utterly false. The invites outsiders were given to MS events was NOT for XB720 / Durango.

Perhaps I should have clarified what I was indicating.

 

[(((interference)))]

The claim was outsiders would be invited to see an XB720 / Durango lineup. That was utterly false. The invites outsiders were given to MS events was NOT for XB720 / Durango.

Perhaps I should have clarified what I was indicating.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/441644/20130304/microsoft-xbox-720-launch-fy2014-video-photos.htm

The reports said that invites were given to select press.

The thing I don't get about your lil theory here (which I agree has some evidential backing to it btw) is that when MS first mentioned XTV in the Yukon leak they explicitly say 720 will have full XTV compatibility built in, so that makes me wonder why they would even bother with the purported 'Xbox 361' STB for casuals if they clearly aim to hit the mediaphile demographic with 720 outta the gate.

Furthermore, Kinect 2.0 and the likelihood of a subsidized payment plan make me think they are more likely than not to go after these 2 demographics day 1. So are you suggesting that they would maybe have a super cheap media STB in Xbox 361 AND a subsidized 720 for these markets? I dunno. I suppose the 361 could be their low end STB and the 720 their high end STB for these consumers, potentially useful in eventually encouraging them to upgrade to 720 down the road.

And the streaming stuff you mention here should be doable to any device that is connected to the internet and has SmartGlass compatibility (which any 360 does) I think. That wast the impression I got from Yukon at least.

The 720 will have a superset of the Xbox TV's features.

Xbox 361 I think refers to the repackaged 360, Xbox TV is different.

From looking at some slides of roadmap again (does anyone have a working link to the entire doc?)

It seems that they are planning on same cable TV type service called XTV which will come to Xbox 360, 361 and 720. And they talk about "driving embedded XTV" into STBs/Embedded TVs, so presumable they could have Xbox TV as such a 'flagship' STB (like Surface with WinRT/8) and also sell this functionality to TV manufacturers to include in their TVs (as some rumours have suggested).

The cheap games machine will be the repackaged 360, Xbox TV is targeted to people who want a streaming media device with small apps and games (ala Apple TV), so will probably be even cheaper than the Xbox 361.

It's possible with the SmartGlass stuff while working on a whole range of tablets and smartphones, for set top box type devices it'll be restricted to the XboxTV (or PC's running Win8). Thus giving Xbox TV a unique selling proposition.

I don't really see how Smartglass mirroring will work on phones and tablets since they don't have physical controls, unlike Vita or the Wuublet.
I was thinking they might let your pair your device with a 720 controller via Bluetooth, that would be pretty neat (except when you're out and about and don't have a controller with you).

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/441644/20130304/microsoft-xbox-720-launch-fy2014-video-photos.htm

The reports said that invites were given to select press.

Tom Warren said on his twitter he is on his way back from Seattle and to stay tuned to the verge this week.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Probably is nothing.

 

[dagamer]

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/441644/20130304/microsoft-xbox-720-launch-fy2014-video-photos.htm

The reports said that invites were given to select press.



The 720 will have a superset of the Xbox TV's features.

Xbox 361 I think refers to the repackaged 360, Xbox TV is different.

From looking at some slides of roadmap again (does anyone have a working link to the entire doc?)

It seems that they are planning on same cable TV type service called XTV which will come to Xbox 360, 361 and 720. And they talk about "driving embedded XTV" into STBs/Embedded TVs, so presumable they could have Xbox TV as such a 'flagship' STB (like Surface with WinRT/8) and also sell this functionality to TV manufacturers to include in their TVs (as some rumours have suggested).

The cheap games machine will be the repackaged 360, Xbox TV is targeted to people who want a streaming media device with small apps and games (ala Apple TV), so will probably be even cheaper than the Xbox 361.

It's possible with the SmartGlass stuff while working on a whole range of tablets and smartphones, for set top box type devices it'll be restricted to the XboxTV (or PC's running Win8). Thus giving Xbox TV a unique selling proposition.

I don't really see how Smartglass mirroring will work on phones and tablets since they don't have physical controls, unlike Vita or the Wuublet.
I was thinking they might let your pair your device with a 720 controller via Bluetooth, that would be pretty neat (except when you're out and about and don't have a controller with you).

I think the Xbox 361 is the $99 GameStop deal. And people keep referencing that document as fact, despite the fact is over 2.5 years old. Things change.

 

[Hardknock]

.

From looking at some slides of roadmap again (does anyone have a working link to the entire doc?

Here's a link to the entire document :smile: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0iImq1q0Y-SaUdSWjI5aUVJNVE/edit?pli=1

 

[expletive]

Here's a link to the entire document :smile: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0iImq1q0Y-SaUdSWjI5aUVJNVE/edit?pli=1

So seems like this is from Sept 24th of what I assume is 2012?

EDIT: performance targets are all over the map in this document. Some say 4-6x, some say 6x, and some say 8x of Xbox 360.

 

[Hardknock]

To me it seems like they designed for 6x while the ps4 is 8x.

 

[DopeyFish]

So seems like this is from Sept 24th of what I assume is 2012?

EDIT: performance targets are all over the map in this document. Some say 4-6x, some say 6x, and some say 8x of Xbox 360.

2010, not 2012

And all perf figures are wonky because this is either for marketing or something...

The project at this point is greenlit, the Yukon arch is either in pre planning or being actively worked on... And the two pages look like they were yanked from another presentation

So in terms of hardware, the two pages (Yukon and the page following) are the most important

The rest is just insight

To me it seems like they designed for 6x while the ps4 is 8x.

Actually if the system had same drawbacks as 360, it would be about 5-6x... But this is totally neglecting any impact of efficiency improvements and having the audio/OS/IO handled by dedicated hardware

 

[babybumb]

These slides are again from ages ago. I think the Xbox TV was already killed. The content deals for channels are just not possible for anybody. Content providers make money by doing exclusive deals with cable companies and it would take years and billions to change it

Also the idea that Xbox would be pushed by cable operators as STB sounds absurd. These guys wont let Apple, Microsoft or anybody bring hardware that they dont control over something they do (even if its much worse functionality)

 

[Scott_Arm]

...
Also the idea that Xbox would be pushed by cable operators as STB sounds absurd. These guys wont let Apple, Microsoft or anybody bring hardware that they dont control over something they do (even if its much worse functionality)

http://www.telus.com/content/tv/optik/services-hardware/optik-tv-on-xbox.jsp

http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/xbox-receiver.jsp#fbid=_xVplWAp8iz

Two large providers, one in Canada and one in the USA are already providing TV on the xbox360.

 

[DopeyFish]

These slides are again from ages ago. I think the Xbox TV was already killed. The content deals for channels are just not possible for anybody. Content providers make money by doing exclusive deals with cable companies and it would take years and billions to change it

Also the idea that Xbox would be pushed by cable operators as STB sounds absurd. These guys wont let Apple, Microsoft or anybody bring hardware that they dont control over something they do (even if its much worse functionality)

Not absurd if they can monetize it.

Like... The Xbox isn't just an Xbox portal but a TV portal as well. The one problem with current STBs is their inability to leverage content.

If your TV area on your Xbox had ad space (or really discovery and engagement) then it allows telcos to push content any way they please...

They'd need to approach cable/IPTV companies with a bunch of angles

One: they need to offer an experience better than STBs (very easy) or will be on par with MediaRoom IPTV (easily top of the class)
Two: it needs drive an increase in engagement (since its a console... very easy)
Three: Telco needs control.... Of the hardware to eliminate service jumps... Of the software related to TV and likely would require presence in the starting screen....

The hardest part that Microsoft would have is with is competitive programming (ie netflix)

http://www.telus.com/content/tv/optik/services-hardware/optik-tv-on-xbox.jsp

http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/xbox-receiver.jsp#fbid=_xVplWAp8iz

Two large providers, one in Canada and one in the USA are already providing TV on the xbox360.

That's through MediaRoom (IPTV) now if I remember correctly... I may not... But they still require (at least for optik) an STB from the telco (in this case, telus) to function

Edit: just checked... Still does.

 

[SanGreal]

http://www.telus.com/content/tv/optik/services-hardware/optik-tv-on-xbox.jsp

http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/xbox-receiver.jsp#fbid=_xVplWAp8iz

Two large providers, one in Canada and one in the USA are already providing TV on the xbox360.

fyi the uverse program was canceled. it wasnt popular and they dont offer it anymore, as indicated on the site you linked

 

[Scott_Arm]

fyi the uverse program was canceled. it wasnt popular and they dont offer it anymore, as indicated on the site you linked

That's because U-verse was a DSL service. I'm just pointing out that using the 360 to view live tv from a television provider has already been done, and the providers were pushing deals with the 360. Telus in Canada was giving 360s to new subscribers for a while.

I don't think the next xbox will come with a digital tuner built in, but I could imagine there being a tuner accessory, and microsoft making deals with carriers to push the the xbox for watching live tv. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's not completely out of the question. A reduced "non-gaming" xbox could also fit into that strategy, but I think it's unlikely they'll have two xboxs with different capabilities.

 

[SanGreal]

That's because U-verse was a DSL service. I'm just pointing out that using the 360 to view live tv from a television provider has already been done, and the providers were pushing deals with the 360. Telus in Canada was giving 360s to new subscribers for a while.

I don't think the next xbox will come with a digital tuner built in, but I could imagine there being a tuner accessory, and microsoft making deals with carriers to push the the xbox for watching live tv. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's not completely out of the question. A reduced "non-gaming" xbox could also fit into that strategy, but I think it's unlikely they'll have two xboxs with different capabilities.

I'm not sure what U-Verse being a DSL service has to do with anything. Telus and AT&T already used Microsoft's mediaroom for their STBs so the 360 w/ mediaroom software was a drop-in replacement. For other non-IPTV providers to push an xbox as a STB it would fall under FCC regulations including external security (cablecard) support etc. It would be even more complicated with foreign territories. I don't see why Microsoft would even want to do this when IPTV is the future (and Microsoft already offers some amount of live TV for many cable providers on 360). My point was that the U-Verse experiment was a failure so I don't think it should be used as an example of what Microsoft may or may not do in the future. According to Microsoft it was not popular and only 10-11,000 subscribers used it. Also, they weren't offering the 360 as a STB; they were just willing to sell you the software to run on your existing 360.

Anyways, almost all of this is already hashed out in the other thread

 

[(((interference)))]

I don't think the next xbox will come with a digital tuner built in, but I could imagine there being a tuner accessory, and microsoft making deals with carriers to push the the xbox for watching live tv. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's not completely out of the question. A reduced "non-gaming" xbox could also fit into that strategy, but I think it's unlikely they'll have two xboxs with different capabilities.

Well, apparently Durango doesn't have DVR capabilites after all.

 

[AzBat]

A source would be nice. You've been here long enough to know that.

Tommy McClain

 

[Grall]

I think MS realizes that you don't need a swiss army knife box to warrant a place in the living room. People interested in DVR stuff probably already acquired one separately. People not interested in one probably don't want to pay extra for an xbox with built-in DVR that they're never going to use, and requiring multiple SKUs with different features complicates manufacturing and distribution (and on occasion, incites that dreaded and oft-cited "customer confusion"...)

 

[expletive]

I don't think the next xbox will come with a digital tuner built in, but I could imagine there being a tuner accessory, and microsoft making deals with carriers to push the the xbox for watching live tv. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's not completely out of the question. A reduced "non-gaming" xbox could also fit into that strategy, but I think it's unlikely they'll have two xboxs with different capabilities.

Agreed, there will be no Xbox with a tuner in it, at least not in NA. Saying "tuner" oversimplifies the types of tuners and challenges with each. If people want to record their premium channels then they'll also need a cable card. If you look at the Verizon app, the HBO GO app, the EPIX app, this is the direction MS is going. The difference in Durango is that these different services will not need to be in discreet applications, they'll probably be unified in a single interface and easily be able to stream content immediately.