Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Gubbi]

Agreed, there will be no Xbox with a tuner in it, at least not in NA. Saying "tuner" oversimplifies the types of tuners and challenges with each.

Are there any networks left that haven't adopted DVB ?

A DVB-C/C2 decoder chip is $8. Standalone DVB-C2 tuners with cable card readers can be found for less than $100.

I expect two SKUs, one with cable TV capability and one without.

If people want to record their premium channels then they'll also need a cable card. If you look at the Verizon app, the HBO GO app, the EPIX app, this is the direction MS is going.

On the one hand we have people dismissing a DD only device because internet connectivity isn't widespread enough, and on the other hand we have people arguing IPTV is the future (now!).

How many TVs does a typical household have? How many 10-14Mbit/s HD streams can your internet connection cope with ?

Cheers

 

[expletive]

Are there any networks left that haven't adopted DVB ?

A DVB-C/C2 decoder chip is $8. Standalone DVB-C2 tuners with cable card readers can be found for less than $100.

I expect two SKUs, one with cable TV capability and one without.

DVB is EU only correct? That is why I stated in North America only because i'm better versed in the tuner requirements in the US. Afaik, in the US theres, ATSC for OTA and QAM for cable. However, for premium encrypted channels there needs to be cable card. If DVB is truly a universal tuning standard for OTA, Cable, and encrypted premiums then its much more viable for that region.

On the one hand we have people dismissing a DD only device because internet connectivity isn't widespread enough, and on the other hand we have people arguing IPTV is the future (now!).

How many TVs does a typical household have? How many 10-14Mbit/s HD streams can your internet connection cope with ?

Cheers

I *think* that the FIOS app may stream directly from the box Verizon puts in your house over ethernet so you aren't going out to the internet for these channels, only to your in-home ONT over your local network. (EDIT:investigating this)

All that said, I think HDMI-in with IP control over the cable-box is more likely than a TV tuner.

 

[Gubbi]

DVB is EU only correct? That is why I stated in North America only because i'm better versed in the tuner requirements in the US. Afaik, in the US theres, ATSC for OTA and QAM for cable. However, for premium encrypted channels there needs to be cable card. If DVB is truly a universal tuning standard for OTA, Cable, and encrypted premiums then its much more viable for that region.

DVB-C/C2 uses QAM signalling, cable in the US is almost certainly DVB-C/C2.

As for Cable Cards. Most cable companies roll their own propietary solution into their STBs. Decryption could be done entirely in software on Durango.

Cheers

 

[Boke]

Time warner cable has started offering IPTV. I can do 2 HD streams and not affect my normal download speeds at all. Premium and on demand both work great, no cable card needed.

 

[cal_guy]

DVB-C/C2 uses QAM signalling, cable in the US is almost certainly DVB-C/C2.

As for Cable Cards. Most cable companies roll their own propietary solution into their STBs. Decryption could be done entirely in software on Durango.

Cheers

Most (if not all) North American digital cable system use Digicipher II.

 

[(((interference)))]

A source would be nice. You've been here long enough to know that.

Tommy McClain

It's what I've been told, plus it makes it easier for MS to sign agreements with cable/content providers when the box can't record TV.

 

[AzBat]

It's what I've been told, plus it makes it easier for MS to sign agreements with cable/content providers when the box can't record TV.

Can you start adding that to your posts please? Especially when making authoritative posts? That wasn't so hard. Thanks!

Personally I can see it going either way, but I originally didn't give any credit to the idea that it will do DVR via tuner, HDMI-in, etc. I always thought it was a pure IPTV-type device. So if it did do recordings, then I could see it doing something like PlayLater via connected channels.

Tommy McClain

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

"We will be offering a single chip custom-made APUs for PlayStation 4, Nintendo Wii U and Xbox. So they don’t need a graphics card at all. We will also be offering custom-made chips for inflight entertainment systems made by Airbus and Boeing. The monitors will be thinner and faster,” he said."

[URL]http://gulfnews.com/business/technology/amd-gears-up-to-take-on-intel-1.1156937[/URL]

 

[aznable]

[URL]http://gulfnews.com/business/technology/amd-gears-up-to-take-on-intel-1.1156937[/URL]

wrong statement...fwik only ps4 has an apu...wii-u is a different thing and x3 we dont know

 

[Rangers]

At least it's some sort of confirmation of AMD in Durango. Not that I think anybody seriously doubted except the usual rumor-haters.

Also it does lean to Durango APU even if the guy was wrong about Wii U.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

wrong statement...fwik only ps4 has an apu...wii-u is a different thing and x3 we dont know

Dude is a suit, can't expect right terminology. Wii u cpu/gpu do come in one package, just not one chip.

 

[(((interference)))]

Personally I can see it going either way, but I originally didn't give any credit to the idea that it will do DVR via tuner, HDMI-in, etc. I always thought it was a pure IPTV-type device. So if it did do recordings, then I could see it doing something like PlayLater via connected channels.

Well it has HDMI in, the vgleaks system diagram shows it. It will probably record games like PS4.

 

[Nesh]

Well it has HDMI in, the vgleaks system diagram shows it. It will probably record games like PS4.

But an HDMI in, suggests recording from an external source. You dont need HDMI in to record the games played on the system itself. So there should be another use for an HDMI in

 

[Gipsel]

[URL]http://gulfnews.com/business/technology/amd-gears-up-to-take-on-intel-1.1156937[/URL]

I guess it got corrected as it now reads:

“AMD technology is inside all known next-gen consoles: the Nintendo Wii U which leverages semi-custom AMD Radeon GPU technology, and the Sony PS4 which is powered by a semi-custom AMD APU. AMD graphics technologies also power the Nintendo Wii U and Microsoft Xbox 360,” he said.

 

[Hardknock]

Durango Memory System Overview

http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-memory-system-overview/

Memory

As you can see on the right side of the diagram, the Durango console has:
•8 GB of DRAM.
•32 MB of ESRAM.


DRAM

The maximum combined read and write bandwidth to DRAM is 68 GB/s (gigabytes per second). In other words, the sum of read and write bandwidth to DRAM cannot exceed 68 GB/s. You can realistically expect that about 80 – 85% of that bandwidth will be achievable (54.4 GB/s – 57.8 GB/s).

DRAM bandwidth is shared between the following components:
•CPU
•GPU
•Display scan out
•Move engines
•Audio system


ESRAM

The maximum combined ESRAM read and write bandwidth is 102 GB/s. Having high bandwidth and lower latency makes ESRAM a really valuable memory resource for the GPU.

ESRAM bandwidth is shared between the following components:
•GPU
•Move engines

Much more at the link.

 

[Rangers]

Okay now somebody tell me what it means...

 

[Hardknock]

Looks like the max bandwidth when combining esram and dram is 136.4 GBs and not 170.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Looks like the max bandwidth when combining esram and dram is 136.4 GBs and not 170.

Nope. GPU memory system has input 68 GB/s from DDR and 102 GB/s from eDRAM. That provides 170 GB/s input maximum to the GPU, labelled as such (170 GB/s read) on the GPU's memory in.

 

[Hornet]

Looks like the max bandwidth when combining esram and dram is 136.4 GBs and not 170.

That's likely because they are performing a memory copy from ESRAM to DRAM or vice-versa, so the bottleneck is the slowest between the source and the destination. Other access patterns have a higher peak bandwidth. For instance:
1) reading from both ESRAM and DRAM peaks at 170 GB/s
2) writing to both ESRAM and DRAM peaks at 170 GB/s
3) summing two vectors from ESRAM and writing the result in DRAM peaks at 153 GB/s

 

[Hornet]

By the way, it seems likely ESRAM details, such as the cell type (6T-SRAM, 1T-SRAM, whatever) and latency are still unknown.