Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Shifty Geezer]

Microsoft have been writing software since 1975 and are currently a billion dollar Corporation. Safe to say they know how to write software. So when I see comments from members about poorly written APIs, It is judgement on their part only, not on the knowledge at hand.

The 'poorly written API' arguments are counter arguments to the view that DX12 can bring a lot to the XB1 precisely because of MS's software experience. MS write software. They are fairly good at that. They wrote the API for XB1. Are we to believe that they didn't do a very good job and so XB1 is hampered, and in need of a new DX to unlock its potential? Or are we to believe that MS did a good job developing XB1 and there's not a lot of scope for DX12 to improve, because the advantages it is looking to bring to the PC space regards reducing overhead don't apply to the consoles that have always had leaner APIs?

 

[mosen]

http://gamingbolt.com/dx12-may-allo...ender-ray-tracing-superfog-and-custom-effects

Did anyone saw the source of this article? A user post on Reddit.

It amazes me how while most of you seem to have a grasp on this... A lot of you guys (and Sony haters) do not.

• No. X1 having DX12 will not "make" a game 1440p or any other silly metric. We don't know what is in DX12 yet, but we can assume like DX11 there will be specific hardware acceleration for certain techniques. Without getting too far into it, a developer might now have access to DX12 ray tracing, Dx12 SuperFog, DX12 ultraMegaConcentricityRendering, or you can make up your own effect for example. That dev can then use that effect that saves GPU time they would have otherwise implemented in a less efficient way. This frees up resources for things like rendering in 1080p or whatever extra effects/AI/gameplay/whatever are desired.
  
• We would not "have to wait" for PC Hardware to start shipping before seeing DX12 in X1 games. If anything, DX12 on X1 should improve the adoption on PC. There is commonality in 9/10/11/12 often with a software switch enabling the DX version. If MS is good with their dev tools, they will have DX12 features asap - regardless of what the PC market is doing.
  
• That said... Developers are going to love commonality. If a company wants to release a PC, X1, PS4 game, they're going to be able to write very similar code on the X1/PC using DX11/12, the PS4 will be a port to OpenGL. This could have been a potential issue with Theif. Add in commonality with PC, WinMobile, X1, I bet we start seeing high level 3-platform indie titles soon as well.
  
• Yes, possible performance increases aside... This PROVES that the X1 GPU is not the same 7000 series as the PS4. We knew AMD had a large custom deal with AMD and we know the PS4 is extremely similar to production parts (and advantage for them at launch for sure). But... The inclusion of DirectX 12 means that MS is still holding some cards close to their chest, that we don't know 100% of the story, and that while MS obviously launched early - there is a long term plan in place.

Noting new here.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Proof positive that XB1 has hardware features PS4 doesn't, only now enabled by DX12 because MS didn't care to include those features in the launch API.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

Looks like GDC is going to be fun. Phil Spencer alluded to it today when asked a question...

 

[Starx]

I assume that's a 'no' then? You seem like a man that's unsure of their own adamant beliefs. Bizarre really...

Not so hard to understand that I didnt write the article.Thats just a theory and I share that here to read others comments.

 

[Starx]

 

[shredenvain]

Why does it have to bring anything miraculous? What does this have to do with the Ps4?
This has nothing to do with the console war or being a fanboy. At least not to me.
It also doesnt really have anything to do with one system having hardware capabilities the other one doesnt.
Its just speculation on the news that has come out the last few days. I know some members may have an agenda to push. I dont. Yet some of the replies that my comments are getting make it seem like I do.
Microsoft are the ones hinting at a change in the consoles api which I find interesting if true. It doesnt have to make it a miracle type situation. It would be a first and if it does happen Im sure there would be a real reason for it. That reason doesnt have to be a negative reason either.

 

[AzBat]

Could the DX12 support for XB1 be more of way for Indies to develop on the console, ala XNA for XBLIG? Indie devs could then build PC games & port them easily to XB1.

Tommy McClain

 

[Brad Grenz]

How is DX12 any better for that then the current version of DX on Xbox One?

 

[AzBat]

How is DX12 any better for that then the current version of DX on Xbox One?

I was always under the assumption you didn't really use DirectX under Xbox 360 or Xbox One. You just used their similar but different low-level libraries specifically designed for the respective hardware. Have you ever seen anything in DirectX(used in Windows) that has specific support for consoles?

Tommy McClain

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Could just be a simple case of there was genuine room for improvement regarding the API. Some things smaller, some things larger, but no miracle paradigm shifts. That could be the gist of what DX12 means for the Xbox One. If you look at it from the perspective where we all knew full well, and expected, improvements would have been made to the console's API or SDK over the life of the system, and rather than simply just call them update (insert random version number here), perhaps they decided to pull all of those, as well as all, future improvements under the DirectX 12 banner, which probably has its upsides from a marketing standpoint, then it doesn't really seem all that far fetched. That isn't to somehow say that should DX12 come to the Xbox One, it will be exclusively as some type of marketing stunt, because I certainly expect there to be some actual meaningful stuff if it occurs.

 

[shredenvain]

Good points all of them. It seems that we already have seen that this gen of consoles may not follow the standards of the past. As an example we have seen the first controller software update ever that I am aware of.

 

[mosen]

Could just be a simple case of there was genuine room for improvement regarding the API. Some things smaller, some things larger, but no miracle paradigm shifts. That could be the gist of what DX12 means for the Xbox One. If you look at it from the perspective where we all knew full well, and expected, improvements would have been made to the console's API or SDK over the life of the system, and rather than simply just call them update (insert random version number here), perhaps they decided to pull all of those, as well as all, future improvements under the DirectX 12 banner, which probably has its upsides from a marketing standpoint, then it doesn't really seem all that far fetched. That isn't to somehow say that should DX12 come to the Xbox One, it will be exclusively as some type of marketing stunt, because I certainly expect there to be some actual meaningful stuff if it occurs.

It's better to not forget that there are already some HW modifications on X1 that would be part of the DX12 hardware specifications. That could help developer and owners of X1 to have better experiences with it. For example DX12 may have better tools for supporting SHAPE and equivalent sound blocks on newer GPUs on X1/PC.

 

[Strange]

So people are saying there's secret sauce in the XB1 waiting to be unleashed by DX12.

Ya, I think we heard that before.

If true it only shows how badly Microsoft is handling their software.

 

[Allandor]

So people are saying there's secret sauce in the XB1 waiting to be unleashed by DX12.

Ya, I think we heard that before.

If true it only shows how badly Microsoft is handling their software.

there are still some things on the DIE-shot we don't know what they are doing. they might officially be announced with DX12 (DX12 is not only for the GPU). (those things next to the cpu-cores, the sram between the cpus, ...)
Also, Microsoft always said, they customized the GPU, so yes there is some room for smaller features that can be done in hardware with DX12.
Also a new major DirectX version had always new hardware requirements. Even minor versions had new hardware-requirements. So a new DX major version is not only a speed-update (that would be done with an incremental update but not a new major version). Furthermore AMD and NVidia want new hardware-based feature-requirements in DX, just because they want to sell you "new" chips.

but yeah, if there is something to say about the hardware, they should've said it right away. would have been better for marketing.

 

[Starx]

Why Microsoft makes the new DX?
I think because every generation of graphic processors embedded with the new hardware features and capabilities , DX is only an interface to provide the use of its features.
If DX12 works as an interface on X1 It's very likely that the GPU embedded with new hardware features.

 

[Lalaland]

there are still some things on the DIE-shot we don't know what they are doing. they might officially be announced with DX12 (DX12 is not only for the GPU). (those things next to the cpu-cores, the sram between the cpus, ...)
Also, Microsoft always said, they customized the GPU, so yes there is some room for smaller features that can be done in hardware with DX12.
Also a new major DirectX version had always new hardware requirements. Even minor versions had new hardware-requirements. So a new DX major version is not only a speed-update (that would be done with an incremental update but not a new major version). Furthermore AMD and NVidia want new hardware-based feature-requirements in DX, just because they want to sell you "new" chips.

but yeah, if there is something to say about the hardware, they should've said it right away. would have been better for marketing.

Traditionally the releases of DX have actually exposed features already in PC GPU h/w but made them accessible in a standardised API, which is why when a new API launches there are already compliant cards ready for you to buy. Indeed PRT is already in AMD and Nvidia parts today the DX12 API will just add support for using the feature without having to worry about proprietary vendor API lock-in.

The many 'thing on the DIE-shot' are not as interesting/remarkable as some are attempting to mislead others into believing they are.

 

[Allandor]

Traditionally the releases of DX have actually exposed features already in PC GPU h/w but made them accessible in a standardised API, which is why when a new API launches there are already compliant cards ready for you to buy. Indeed PRT is already in AMD and Nvidia parts today the DX12 API will just add support for using the feature without having to worry about proprietary vendor API lock-in.

The many 'thing on the DIE-shot' are not as interesting/remarkable as some are attempting to mislead others into believing they are.

as far as I remember. Directx was always ahead of the features that were available in hardware. There were some features (e.g. the tesslator since radeon 8500 cards) but those were not as useable as finally directx 11 required. most times, the chips/cards that fulfill the requirements were only available when the DX version was released (major DX versions). maybe there was a time-gap off ~half a year, but not more.

but still, DX is not only for GPUs. they could integrate the hardware-features of the sound-DSPs on the AMD APUs or something like that. or the move-engines (to make them easier to use), ... whatever.. we know something more at GDC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Also a new major DirectX version had always new hardware requirements.

It's wrong to second-guess their naming scheme. If DX was to get a complete rewrite without adding any new features, such that it was a completely new codebase, that would warrant a full revision number; moreso than even a linear progression in features.

Therefore, advance of a whole DX value is not indicative in itself of more features (although new features shouldn't come as a surprise).

 

[AlNom]

"12" is leet speak for R. R for Radeon.