Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[eastmen]

If MSFT was ever to allow for PC games to run on the XB1, which I think is neither in their best interest nor would produce worthy results, I think they would not let you do it with disks, it would be digital download.

Playing old PC games on TV is quite easy, lots of old pc games runs fine on kaveri for example.
If one wants a hptc it should buy a HTPC, it still does a lot more than what either the PS4 or the 360 are doing and without paywall.

I don't get this thinking. There are a slew of games from the last 20 years that would play very well on an xbox one.

Games like Dark Forces , The wing commanders. This could be the xbox one's virtual console.

They should all work in emulation as long as you stay before 2003 or so. I certainly wouldn't mind buying a few titles that way. I love GOG and if MS is doing most of the heavy lifting getting stuff to work its even better.

 

[Strange]

I don't get this thinking. There are a slew of games from the last 20 years that would play very well on an xbox one.

Games like Dark Forces , The wing commanders. This could be the xbox one's virtual console.

They should all work in emulation as long as you stay before 2003 or so. I certainly wouldn't mind buying a few titles that way. I love GOG and if MS is doing most of the heavy lifting getting stuff to work its even better.

Two issues:

1. QA. Do you want to make sure all titles work? Or do you want to just do it and wait for a slew of complaints about some game not working in specific ways or is and not being able to fix it because you can't find the team that can fix it, and then allowing the bad press to follow.
2. Where's the income? Who's going to pay for the service?

 

[mosen]

Two issues:

1. QA. Do you want to make sure all titles work? Or do you want to just do it and wait for a slew of complaints about some game not working in specific ways or is and not being able to fix it because you can't find the team that can fix it, and then allowing the bad press to follow.
2. Where's the income? Who's going to pay for the service?

1. Microsoft itself, should make sure that which title would work properly (in it's store).
2. It could be a service like Playstation Now (Monthly payment) but user should be able to play locally and in near future using cloud.
3. They can add more recent PC games with higher setting (compared to 360) to the service.
4. Even they can sell this games (or more recent games) if users want to buy them (alongside the rental method).
5. This service would be useful for PC (Windows) ecosystem, too. X1 would be a specific PC among other PCs.

 

[eastmen]

Two issues:

1. QA. Do you want to make sure all titles work? Or do you want to just do it and wait for a slew of complaints about some game not working in specific ways or is and not being able to fix it because you can't find the team that can fix it, and then allowing the bad press to follow.
2. Where's the income? Who's going to pay for the service?

How does Nintendo do it with the VC ? They have games for the last 20 years on vastly different hardware. Sony will be doing it later this year.

What are they doing to make sure all those games work ? I'm sure MS could do whatever that is.

 

[taisui]

Nintendo runs their stuff on official emulator I think, those games works on specific hardware in the past. PC games are another story, they are supposed to be compatible but that usually is a difficult problem.

 

[LightHeaven]

Then maybe it should have been written differently?

Probably. I'm not a native english speaker and it's not uncommon for me to completely miss the tone of what I try to say.

Sorry about that.

 

[Starx]

 

[Deleted member 86764]

That's a strange image size. It's almost like it has been edited.

 

[liquidboy]

That's a strange image size. It's almost like it has been edited.

feel free to go to the actual Microsoft DirectX blog site then ...

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/p/directx12.aspx

 

[shredenvain]

Its not hard to imagine that when Ms designed the Xbox One they did it with DX 12 in mind. Alot of people are having a hard time swallowing this for some reason. It is a first in Xbox console history. The last two systems released with and continued to use the same api from begining to end.

I think Sony suprised Ms with the release of Ps4 and forced Ms to release the One earlier then they had planned. They probably had intended for the X1 to be a DX12 system from the get go but it wasnt ready for launch. Ms continues to update the systems drivers and api on a regular basis and most likely will continue to do so for the consoles lifetime. Hopefully we will see titles in the future that really take advantage of the new api features whatever they may be.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I think it's a mistake assuming Xbox One was built towards a hardware spec defined by DX12 when it seems far more likely DX12 is being built to bring over advantages of the console-optimized Xbox One API implementation. There's no reason to believe it will add features and capabilities to the console. In a closed box there has never been any reason to restrict the hardware to a DX point release feature level. But as the argument for Mantle goes, DirectX needs improvements in efficiency and overhead, the kind of which we might suppose Xbox One already enjoys.

 

[Betanumerical]

I think it's a mistake assuming Xbox One was built towards a hardware spec defined by DX12 when it seems far more likely DX12 is being built to bring over advantages of the console-optimized Xbox One API implementation. There's no reason to believe it will add features and capabilities to the console. In a closed box there has never been any reason to restrict the hardware to a DX point release feature level. But as the argument for Mantle goes, DirectX needs improvements in efficiency and overhead, the kind of which we might suppose Xbox One already enjoys.

Microsoft even said exactly this in the DF article with the XB1 architects.

we took that opportunity with Xbox One and with our customised command processor we've created extensions on top of D3D which fit very nicely into the D3D model and this is something that we'd like to integrate back into mainline 3D on the PC too - this small, very low-level, very efficient object-orientated submission of your draw [and state] commands.

 

[dobwal]

I think it's a mistake assuming Xbox One was built towards a hardware spec defined by DX12 when it seems far more likely DX12 is being built to bring over advantages of the console-optimized Xbox One API implementation. There's no reason to believe it will add features and capabilities to the console. In a closed box there has never been any reason to restrict the hardware to a DX point release feature level. But as the argument for Mantle goes, DirectX needs improvements in efficiency and overhead, the kind of which we might suppose Xbox One already enjoys.

Agreed. Somewhat. There is still a black box that exists around the gpu. While the current console APIs provide greater access than what's found on PCs. DX12 (and the ps4's future iteration of its low level api) may represent AMD providing even greater access to its hardware.

 

[shredenvain]

I think it's a mistake assuming Xbox One was built towards a hardware spec defined by DX12 when it seems far more likely DX12 is being built to bring over advantages of the console-optimized Xbox One API implementation. There's no reason to believe it will add features and capabilities to the console. In a closed box there has never been any reason to restrict the hardware to a DX point release feature level. But as the argument for Mantle goes, DirectX needs improvements in efficiency and overhead, the kind of which we might suppose Xbox One already enjoys.

So if the Xbox One does indeed get its own version of Dx12 as implied by recent tweets and the above photo then you are saying it wouldnt receive any new features or capabilities?
I agree that alot of features from the X1 have been implemented into Dx12 but to say the only new features of the new api would be the closer to the metal features from the X1 may be alittle short sighted. There are plenty of things from the X1's launch that would lead anyone to believe the launch was rushed. Dont take what i am saying the wrong way.
Im not implying any secret sauce or conspiracy theory. Im just saying if what is implied by Ms is true and the X1 does get it's own new version of Dx12 it is bound to gain something beyond what it has with its Dx11.1+. I know the gpu is a Amd Sea Islands gpu and is not likely to gain any mind blowing new hardware features. The Ms guys in the Df interview stated they did alot of custom work to the 2 command processors. All I am trying to say is the X1 can only stand to gain from an upgrade to DX12.

 

[Brad Grenz]

So if the Xbox One does indeed get its own version of Dx12 as implied by recent tweets and the above photo then you are saying it wouldnt receive any new features or capabilities?
I agree that alot of features from the X1 have been implemented into Dx12 but to say the only new features of the new api would be the closer to the metal features from the X1 may be alittle short sighted. There are plenty of things from the X1's launch that would lead anyone to believe the launch was rushed. Dont take what i am saying the wrong way.
Im not implying any secret sauce or conspiracy theory. Im just saying if what is implied by Ms is true and the X1 does get it's own new version of Dx12 it is bound to gain something beyond what it has with its Dx11.1+. I know the gpu is a Amd Sea Islands gpu and is not likely to gain any mind blowing new hardware features. The Ms guys in the Df interview stated they did alot of custom work to the 2 command processors. All I am trying to say is the X1 can only stand to gain from an upgrade to DX12.

The problem is you are thinking of it as "Xbox One getting DX12" when it's actually PCs getting something that resembles the current DX API on Xbox One rebranded as DX12.

 

[3dilettante]

That's a strange image size. It's almost like it has been edited.

The image actually has changed. I remember a different AMD graphics logo being there originally.

So if the Xbox One does indeed get its own version of Dx12 as implied by recent tweets and the above photo then you are saying it wouldnt receive any new features or capabilities?
I agree that alot of features from the X1 have been implemented into Dx12 but to say the only new features of the new api would be the closer to the metal features from the X1 may be alittle short sighted.

The Xbox One was described as having a superset of DX11, and if DX12 maintains continuity from DX11, it too would be a superset of DX11. It just may not be the same set as what the Xbox One has.

There may reasons for not making DX12 a copy of DX11.X, such as protecting the marketability of the Xbox One and the status of DX as a somewhat level playing field for the existing graphics providers.
If Microsoft does not want to declare AMD a winner for the next couple PC hardware cycles, it might want to provide features and requirements that either work with Nvidia's implementations or add elements that no existing architecture can handle natively.

 

[shredenvain]

http://www.totalxbox.com/72896/microsoft-teases-directx-12-reveal-for-gdc-2014-including-xbox-one/

" If it turns out to be as suspected - will be the first time an entirely new revision of the API has been applied to the console during its lifespan"

How am I looking at it the wrong way. Of course Dx 12 will most likely implement things from the xbox one but that will not be the only change. Who knows exactly what changes are made in Dx12. Just because a few of you dont agree with what im saying doesnt mean im wrong. Im not saying that I am right but if they do change the api on the X1 to Dx 12 like they are implying it would be silly to think it would not bring any added features along with it. I know alot of people are really attached to the fact that the Sea Islands arch is dx 11.2 but that doesnt mean the X1 isnt capable of using a specialized version of Dx12. It is just a software layer after all. Are there not older Amd Dx10 cards that have been rebadge and labled as dx11? I dont see why it is being deemed so unlikely that the X1 was designed with a future version of the api but was released before it was ready. From what Ive read in the Df article the hardware and software teams at Ms worked closely together on the console. Im sure Dx 12 has been in development for quite sometime.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Total Xbox don't have any idea what they're talking about. Look, "DirectX 12" on Xbox One is semantic slight of hand. The Xbox One APIs have never been bound by any specific version of DirectX for Windows. MS deciding to call it DX12 after the fact doesn't actually change anything about the Xbox One's capabilities. That's not to say there haven't been, and won't continue to be improvements in the Xbox One API and drivers. That's par for the course for any console.

 

[liquidboy]

http://www.totalxbox.com/72896/microsoft-teases-directx-12-reveal-for-gdc-2014-including-xbox-one/

" If it turns out to be as suspected - will be the first time an entirely new revision of the API has been applied to the console during its lifespan"

How am I looking at it the wrong way. Of course Dx 12 will most likely implement things from the xbox one but that will not be the only change. Who knows exactly what changes are made in Dx12. Just because a few of you dont agree with what im saying doesnt mean im wrong. Im not saying that I am right but if they do change the api on the X1 to Dx 12 like they are implying it would be silly to think it would not bring any added features along with it. I know alot of people are really attached to the fact that the Sea Islands arch is dx 11.2 but that doesnt mean the X1 isnt capable of using a specialized version of Dx12. It is just a software layer after all. Are there not older Amd Dx10 cards that have been rebadge and labled as dx11? I dont see why it is being deemed so unlikely that the X1 was designed with a future version of the api but was released before it was ready. From what Ive read in the Df article the hardware and software teams at Ms worked closely together on the console. Im sure Dx 12 has been in development for quite sometime.

You're on the right track ...

Theres an NDA which will come up on the 20th ...

The improvements are such that it warranted a leap to DX12 not Dx11.3x ..

It took a while for the Software to catch up with what is already shipped in the HW..

 

[Deleted member 86764]

You're on the right track ...

Theres an NDA which will come up on the 20th ...

The improvements are such that it warranted a leap to DX12 not Dx11.3x ..

It took a while for the Software to catch up with what is already shipped in the HW..

There really are some people that like to create prophecies about the Xbox One, like some bonkers cult suggesting dates of the end of the world. Dates that forever change to keep their followers in check.

At what point do you think it'll be accepted that there's no dGPU, no stacked APU in the Xbox One? I figured that'd be clear on its release, maybe when the comparisons are made, but no, they carry on regardless.

The Xbox One was created with media in mind, Microsoft followed Nintendo's lead by creating a machine that's fairly underpowered and comes with motion control, hoping to capture the same audience.