Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

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That quote is pulled word-for-word from the old Examiner article.

Aight I wasn't aware there are names for the same author since the by-line is different or a didn't see the reference to the original examiner article and I merely glanced at the examiner article.

Having done my due diligence now we see that an update occurs:

There has been a bit of controversy surrounding this topic. In an attempt to clarify further, I decided to contact my source based on the idea that the increase in clock speed may have been a confusion with the better utilization of ESRAM that Digital Foundry reported on earlier this month.

When I approached my source with this question, this was he response I was given:

"The bump was supposed to have been planned prior to initial reveal. Any actual changes would have taken place during E3 Week. Effectively, the way the RAM is set out in the machine, Microsoft realized they could be more efficient in its use without sacrificing the amount set aside for OS operation. They immediately reacted.

Physical RAM won't be upped in time for November release as it was too late even during initial reveal, but developers are saying, in terms of efficiency of the RAM and the reported yield problems, Microsoft have made some snappy breakthroughs and gave the impression it was a straight up increase in clock speed; hence the rumor

This ... I'm not sure I am reading this right but it seems that there is not a clock increase but something along that whole 88% increase rumor maybe I don't know. "They immediately reacted" is an odd choice of words.

Anyhoo doubt cast on RAM update for reasonable reasons. Clock upgrade maybe a misinterpretation. It is still confusing.
 
Aight I wasn't aware there are names for the same author since the by-line is different or a didn't see the reference to the original examiner article and I merely glanced at the examiner article.

Having done my due diligence now we see that an update occurs:



This ... I'm not sure I am reading this right but it seems that there is not a clock increase but something along that whole 88% increase rumor maybe I don't know. "They immediately reacted" is an odd choice of words.

Anyhoo doubt cast on RAM update for reasonable reasons. Clock upgrade maybe a misinterpretation. It is still confusing.
It may well be. Just to add fuel to the flames, a guy wrote an article about the alleged upclock and the like, following the rumours.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/microso...cations-to-fight-the-playstation-4/45218.html

The most interesting thing to me about the article is that he names the Xbox One's GPU as Bonaire.
 
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The PS4 supply looks to be internal like it was on the PS3.

I Gotta see what's the secret is if it's true. When I look at the xbox one i see a simple box, but when i see the dimensions and the direct ventilation, i see a pretty effective solution to have a really good setup.

Also it is not hard to make the Xbox One power supply for 125W or 140W. The choke components and phases look like what is used on the high end 7970 for example (about 2x the power). You can go higher end still but you don't need to. I don't know about the MOSFETs or the caps but with the right part numbers it looks like the PCB has the required number of components for 125W or 140W without too much trouble.

I was expecting something in the range of 180W and a transistor budget in the range of Xenos + Xenon. The transistor budget is about right but the power is about half. I think they simply made the choice for a low power and cool/quiet design.

Yeah, it looks like it could be done. from the beginning they said they had their own plans which they could be sticking to, but a power supply upgrade if it was ever needed for a GPU accommodation, i wouldn't see it impossible.
 
I was expecting something in the range of 180W and a transistor budget in the range of Xenos + Xenon. The transistor budget is about right but the power is about half. I think they simply made the choice for a low power and cool/quiet design.

I'm not sure 100 watts just for the SOC translates to about half of 180 in practice. There is still lots of other stuff to be powered. HDD, Blu Ray, 8GB RAM, various ports (USB, Kinect), Fans, Wi-Fi and other radios. If the SOC is 100 watts I expect the power supply to possibly be specced at something like the original 360 was.

TDP of 7790 is also 85 watts for that matter. So it doesn't seem like 100 is extremely low for that caliber of GPU.
 
When I look at the xbox one i see a simple box, but when i see the dimensions and the direct ventilation, i see a pretty effective solution to have a really good setup.
It's just a huge plastic case with a large fan/heatsink and not much else in it. Nothing special to it, really, and overall quite inefficient use of space. There's no reason whatsoever the PSU for xbone couldn't be internal as well. There's certainly room for it, and sony has proven many times now that heat isn't an issue either. It's just MS being lazy, possibly incompetent, that's all.
 
It's just a huge plastic case with a large fan/heatsink and not much else in it. Nothing special to it, really, and overall quite inefficient use of space. There's no reason whatsoever the PSU for xbone couldn't be internal as well. There's certainly room for it, and sony has proven many times now that heat isn't an issue either. It's just MS being lazy, possibly incompetent, that's all.

360 and ps3 are about the same size, actually 360 has always been smaller for any given model.

also, ps4 and xb1 arent out yet, so who knows which may or may not have heat issues. it's also possible ms is exploring an overclock while sony is not because of superior cooling (which would be funny).
 
also, ps4 and xb1 arent out yet, so who knows which may or may not have heat issues. it's also possible ms is exploring an overclock while sony is not because of superior cooling (which would be funny).

If you look at the history of the 2 consoles, I don't think that's correct. (and with hindsight, I have no idea why we were surprised at the difference in boxes!).

Xbox:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Xbox+Teardown/1324/2
Xbox 360:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Xbox+360+Teardown/1203/2

They look pretty much "like a standard PC". Giant heatsink and fan that sucks air over the CPU.

PS2:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+2+%25Teardown/1289/1
PS3:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Teardown/1260/4

Those don't look anything like any traditional PC that I've seen. This is more akin to a video recorder or dvd player - trying to squeeze everything into a small space.

It's just a different way of solving the same problem - it's not clear that either box will be cooler/quieter. (the XB1 should be a hell of a lot easier to assemble though).
 
I'm not sure 100 watts just for the SOC translates to about half of 180 in practice. There is still lots of other stuff to be powered. HDD, Blu Ray, 8GB RAM, various ports (USB, Kinect), Fans, Wi-Fi and other radios. If the SOC is 100 watts I expect the power supply to possibly be specced at something like the original 360 was.
Are you sure about these power draw estimates? I have a MacMini running an Ivy Bridge quadcore 2.3Ghz i7 (3615QM), 16Gb DDR3 RAM and two 1Tb HDDs and the maximum draw is 85 watts.

Admittedly we don't know the power draw of Kinect 2 but even so.
 
I'm not sure 100 watts just for the SOC translates to about half of 180 in practice. There is still lots of other stuff to be powered. HDD, Blu Ray, 8GB RAM, various ports (USB, Kinect), Fans, Wi-Fi and other radios. If the SOC is 100 watts I expect the power supply to possibly be specced at something like the original 360 was.

TDP of 7790 is also 85 watts for that matter. So it doesn't seem like 100 is extremely low for that caliber of GPU.

I was not referring to system power. I was thinking more of PS3 and 360 *original* budgets in terms of component cost, die size, die cost, transistor counts, *original* (not shrink) power budgets, etc. (And I looked at PS2 and original Xbox too.)

So I was projecting a certain likely target for CPU + GPU power consumption and die size/transistor count/cost. (A median between the original PS3 and original 360.)



I did not expect either MS or Sony to deviate significantly this generation. (I was expecting similar price targets, perhaps Sony a little lower than PS3 and perhaps MS a little higher or similar.) Once you start with the price target one can make *some* assumptions. Obviously BOM is not selling price but one can only guess-estimate so much.

I think the price and cost of goods sold was pretty close to the estimate. Sony appears to be closer on CPU + GPU power consumption while MS seems to be a fair step lower. At least the 100W seems to be. It is quite a bit lower than original PS3 and a bit lower than original 360.



Anyways, only a few more months to use both and see what both teams came up with and what can be done with both. I still expect both to strongly compete with each other and I still assert that we can't say that much in detail until we really see the "work done" per frame for the 5B versus 3.XB SOC with the first couple years of titles. [I hope and expect both to be strong, and I think that is best for the customers and the industry. I think one strong console is bad for the customers and industry in the same way that only one strong GPU or one strong CPU vendor is.]

I don't think it will be like last generation where one had a big design handicap. [Which made an impact and made dev difficult but in the end didn't make (at all) the sort of differences that the flame wars would seems to suggest.]



This is just one example from the past:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1007286/ps3-hardware-slow-broken

Yet if I compare something like Crysis 3 side by side I can't agree at all that one is "broken". My point is that the differences should be *less* this generation. Not saying it made no impact, but much less than the flames suggested and it should be much less this generation. Perhaps quite a bit less.

[Disclaimer: I own each company's products for the last generations and will this gen too, so don't go full fanboy. Just trying to illustrate that strongly blasted differences, if any, might *result* in quite a bit less than the arguments are suggesting. Such as that silly Pitcairn and Bonaire article. Or that Cell is X TFLOPS. Or that PS3 hardware "is broken". Much of that turns out highly inaccurate if you are interested in what can be achieved with the hardware.]
 
It's just a huge plastic case with a large fan/heatsink and not much else in it. Nothing special to it, really, and overall quite inefficient use of space. There's no reason whatsoever the PSU for xbone couldn't be internal as well. There's certainly room for it, and sony has proven many times now that heat isn't an issue either. It's just MS being lazy, possibly incompetent, that's all.

well i personally believe that the power supply should remain external, that relieves tension on the space and gives plenty of leeway for the engineers to work. On the other side if you can present the same parity of thermal cooling while having the power supply internal; then you're solution no doubt is proven to be pretty effective.



Admittedly we don't know the power draw of Kinect 2 but even so.

kinect runs on a separate power cable with it's own power regulations.

If you look at the history of the 2 consoles, I don't think that's correct. (and with hindsight, I have no idea why we were surprised at the difference in boxes!).

Xbox:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Xbox+Teardown/1324/2
Xbox 360:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Xbox+360+Teardown/1203/2

They look pretty much "like a standard PC". Giant heatsink and fan that sucks air over the CPU.


It's just a different way of solving the same problem - it's not clear that either box will be cooler/quieter. (the XB1 should be a hell of a lot easier to assemble though).


Well, Microsoft has gotten better from the unfortunate Xbox 360 stir up. I would imagine that With both Kinect and the power supply being external, microsoft would have more than enough leeway to take advantage of in the dimensions of the XB1.

I'm guessing what Microsoft should do from now on; is adopt an effective cooling layout that can work on any kind of setup for future references. Given the fact that it's all just hidden circuitry anyways. they should also elect official console dimensions for future references, and just have artists work on the designs of the box. (since it's evident they didn't spend too much time on that.)

what all of this would do is enable them to work on a given shifting plan, and give them room to improve in a shorter time. (if ever needed.)
 
The separate power cable was gone in the 360 slim/Kinect bundle. It looks like XBone Kinect also has just the USB cable.
 
The Xbox One Kinect connector is different than the current Kinect connector.

Current Kinect:

06-14-10kinectport.jpg


Xbox One (third from right to left):

468px-6C7512066-xbox-one-back-ports.blocks_desktop_large.jpg

EDIT: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2013/05/20130514-XBOX-ONE-013.jpg
 
If I had to guess I would think that the new interface is probably a dedicated USB3 port with additional power, and a special connector to stop you plugging other things into it.
 
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