XBox One 20nm APU revision possibilities *spawn*

[AlNom]

I'm predicting that you will see the 20nm internal board revision w/ original Xbox One case H2 '15 for that Fall/holiday season. For E3 2016, I think you will see the Xbox One Slim based in 20nm APU and a comprehensive redesign of the board, memory configuration, and internal components.

The first 20nm debut will be primarily to increase margins and allow the Xbox One to sell at $299 retail with a bundled game profitably.

I suppose we may see a shift around then (not unlike Falcon 360 circa late 2007).

I'm not so sure the power savings would be enough, but they do seem rather conservative (edit: wrt to cooling) with the chassis design right now.

 

[east of eastside]

Does anyone know what memory module configuration, space saving changes could be possible with Xbox One? PS4 has 8 memory modules on the top and 8 on the bottom. Is this just more clever wiring on the part of Sony's design, or is this something that would not be inherently possible with Xbox One's DDR 3 (I don't see why not)?

What DDR3 memory module size and density space saving changes might be possible for Xbox One in the future?

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I suppose we may see a shift around then (not unlike Falcon 360 circa late 2007).
I'm not so sure the power savings would be enough, but they do seem rather conservative (edit: wrt to cooling) with the chassis design right now.

Good article analyzing the slim power saving question:
http://www.dailytech.com/Xbox+One+S...er+Cooler+20+nm+APU+From+AMD/article36813.htm

TSMC's information on the die shrink from 28 nm to 20 nm state an average power savings of 25 percent power (at constant clock speed). So assuming that 80-90 percent of the Xbox One's power consumption is in the SoC, this indicates that the Xbox One with the new chip should be drawing around 90-100 watts.

 

[AlNom]

Does anyone know what memory module configuration, space saving changes could be possible with Xbox One? PS4 has 8 memory modules on the top and 8 on the bottom. Is this just more clever wiring on the part of Sony's design, or is this something that would not be inherently possible with Xbox One's DDR 3 (I don't see why not)?

What DDR3 memory module size and density space saving changes might be possible for Xbox One in the future?

Just off the top of my head (in a hurry):

From what I understand, DDR3 wire traces need matching lengths, hence the convoluted paths. At least with DIMMs everything is kind of in-line in a row. For placement underneath the board, they would also need extra PCB layers.

GDDR5 also makes it easy due to clamshell configuration where they share bit-lines.

 

[east of eastside]

Just off the top of my head (in a hurry):

From what I understand, DDR3 wire traces need matching lengths, hence the convoluted paths. At least with DIMMs everything is kind of in-line in a row. For placement underneath the board, they would also need extra PCB layers.

GDDR5 also makes it easy due to clamshell configuration where they share bit-lines.

Interesting to know, thanks for the explanation.

So, what potential do you see for space saving in the DDR3 memory modules from their original Xbox One configuration?

 

[London Geezer]

Well I for one would love to buy an XO slim, with Kinect, at the prices we'll get in a year or so. Sounds like a crazy good deal. MS just needs to give me a bit more on the Kinect side - which at the moment doesn't seem likely - and I'm sold.

 

[AlNom]

There are higher density chips, but I'm sure there's going to be some funny complication as it's still the same bus width. Just imagine all those traces coming out of half the number of chips. They'd probably want to move to more PCB layers at that point, but I'm not really sure what else they can do there.

Assuming they'll be ok with switching to DDR4, that means they can also halve the number of data lines (+ overhead wires).

 

[east of eastside]

There are higher density chips, but I'm sure there's going to be some funny complication as it's still the same bus width. Just imagine all those traces coming out of half the number of chips. They'd probably want to move to more PCB layers at that point, but I'm not really sure what else they can do there.

Assuming they'll be ok with switching to DDR4, that means they can also halve the number of data lines (+ overhead wires).

Is higher density LPDDR3 modules a technically and economically (without niggling engineering complications) option for a 2015-16 Xbox One Slim model?

 

[east of eastside]

Great find:

http://www.digitimes.com/photogallery/ShowPhoto.asp?ID=5506

SK Hynix has developed 8-gigabit LPDDR3 memory using 20nm-class process technology. The chips are targeted at mobile devices that are high-speed, high-density and low-power consumption.

The product works at 2133Mbps which surpasses 1600Mbps of existing LPDDR3 in the aspect of its data transmission speed and is the world's fastest mobile DRAM, the company claimed.

SK Hynix has been shipping samples of its 8Gb LPDDR3 memory to customers, and expects to start mass producing the new chips at the end of 2013.

Hynix supplies the DDR3 512MB for Xbox One. I believe this memory chip would be perfectly coupled with the 20nm APU in Xbox One Slim, halving the number of of modules to 8 from 16 for a considerable space savings while lowering the voltage to 1.2v from 1.5v and presenting a likely cost and manufacturing availability advantage over DDR4.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Low power chips are almost always more expensive so unless power (i.e. battery life) or heat is an issue, there's really no reason chose those parts.

 

[east of eastside]

The point is the space savings gained from the current 16x4gb Hynix DDR3 module configuration to a 8x8gb module configuration thanks to the higher density memory. Or is there a 8gb DDR3 density (regular, not low power) at 2133mhz that I am not aware of?

The 8Gb LPDDR3 chips can be stacked up and realize a high density of maximum 4GB solution in a single package, SK Hynix said.

Does this have any bearing for Xbox One Slim? I don't suppose that means the memory could be configured in 2x4GB packages? Would be awesome if so.

 

[east of eastside]

Don't know if this was known, but Hynix has 8gigabit DDR3 densitys in the same listing as their 4gigabit H5TQ4G63AFR Xbox One memory. They were added after Xbox one's release date, but aren't showing a 2133mhz speed.

http://hynix.com/products/computing....ramKind=19&info.eol=NOT&posMap=computingDDR3

 

[blastingthosejets]

Great find:

http://www.digitimes.com/photogallery/ShowPhoto.asp?ID=5506



Hynix supplies the DDR3 512MB for Xbox One. I believe this memory chip would be perfectly coupled with the 20nm APU in Xbox One Slim, halving the number of of modules to 8 from 16 for a considerable space savings while lowering the voltage to 1.2v from 1.5v and presenting a likely cost and manufacturing availability advantage over DDR4.

Would't that create issues with address space?

 

[east of eastside]

I don't know about that, couldn't the density increase/module reduction be compensated for in some way in a redesign?