Xbox live price going up !

[corduroygt]

The funny thing is you could have done that with the free Silver account!

You need Gold for party chat don't you?

 

[AlNom]

Yep.

 

[Gradthrawn]

You need Gold for party chat don't you?

Yep.

Party, but not 1-to-1. At least last time I checked (although it's been a while).

 

[patsu]

If all the friends I play with jumped ship to psn, then I would have followed suit. It's not about investment in a console, brand loyalty, etc, it's about where your friends are. It's not like we didn't try, we gave psn many chances over the years. And heck most of my friends work for Sony 1st, 2nd and 3rd parties so they all have free and/or cheaply acquired ps3's. But psn was just too damn primitive that we just couldn't stomach it.

For sure, many psn users never touched a 360, they migrated straight from a ps2. For them I'm sure psn is great. As long as they stay away from live they will never know what they are missing so they will remain content.

This may very well be true for some, but there are people who tried both and decide to stay Xbox Silver and PSN. Different people have different preferences and priority. The core 360 gamers are unlikely to switch because of a $10/year price hike. The switching cost to PSN is simply too high even if there are cross game invite. The open approach also will introduce compatibility issues in exchange for a more open business environment. These philosophical differences will likely drive them further and further apart as time goes on.

 

[BRiT]

In general, voice chat quality is higher on PSN (because the bit rate is higher) and performance is almost always the same.

This may change in November when MS releases the next dashboard update. In the beta dashboard updates MS have implemented newer different voice audio codecs, which may have only been possible since dropping support for Xbox 1 hardware.

 

[tha_con]

At the moment I'd say it's reasonably on topic. There's only so much you can say about a price hike, and the comparative value of the now-more-expensive Live! versus PSN is an obvious progression of the thread.

And it's these things that make my experiences of online with PS3 so tortourous due to their absence. Teamwork is non-existent in many titles due to poor chat support. Teaming up is torturous because you have to wrestle with whatever party mechanics the title has and these are often buggy. For much of Uncharted 2's early period, the point when I was playing online, we'd spend time trying to form parties that would crash when the third player joined. Typically it's about an hour from all switching on our PS3's to getting to play our online games, an hour of poking around in the order we join games, who hosts, quitting games, restarting them, powering off and on again. Recently we used Skype to talk in Borderlands, and we tried that idea with Warhawk only its player system is so utterly pants it can put players from the same clan wanting to play together on opposite teams. Has this been addressed? Has anyone ever even mentioned solving it?

Some of that is going to be via title, but the lack of a common interface and common infrastructure on Sony's part aggravates that. Also Sony specify the TRCs, and they can just as readily specify a minimum online quality as any other requirement, even if they leave specific implementation up to the developers. And most importantly, Sony don't address it! They haven't given any indication when or even if they'll roll out cross-game chat, common in-game chat, cross-game invites, cross-game party creation, etc. They've turned a blind eye to it, and stalled the gaming populace for a couple of years now with their hints at cross-game chat. Thus one cannot look to the current state of PSN and say, "it'll improve," as I used to, because after all these years, these priority services haven't even made it into the paid-for content.

To MS's credit, they have given the gamers what they wanted, though the price seems fairly steep. I think overall if you just like casual online with whoever you happen to meet, PSN works. But if you, like me, bought a PS3 expecting to be able to play one's preferred titles with one's friends without having to meet up round someone's house, it's been a disappointment, and one even questions if Sony will have anything worked out by next gen when their capacity to fumble around is unequalled.

With reference for to teamwork, that's hardly a consequence of chat support. Every single PSN game I have with a big MP component has wonderful chat support. The short coming is that not every PS3 comes with a headset. There is nothing wrong with the software or SDK.

I can't vouch for the problems with specific games as I don't generally encounter any like you've described. So long as a game has a party system, I've found it's not hard to get teams together and play. I can't doubt that maybe it did take you an hour to play, but I certainly can't believe that's everyone's experience. It seems like a rare case rather than the norm.

Either way, people seem to be particularly against the idea of sending a simple message, if you can't voice chat or join a party on XBL, then the system must be "broken" even if a quick "wanna play" solves all of that.

 

[AzBat]

Party, but not 1-to-1. At least last time I checked (although it's been a while).

Yes, 1 on 1 chat has been included free for Xbox Silver members since the beginning and it's still there. They even give you 4 separate chat channels that you can switch between. BTW, video chat requires a Gold subscription too.

Tommy McClain

 

[Asher]

Been a subscriber to XBL since the original beta in 2002. Just phoned in today to turn off my auto-renewal. I was on the fence already seeing as how little I have time to play today, they just pushed me over to the others side of the fence and lost all of my money.

PS3 & PC henceforth for multiplatform games.

Nice going, MS.

 

[RobertR1]

Frankly, if PSN was my only option, I'd be back to PC gaming. Having sold my PS3 recently, there hasn't been one time where I've missed PSN. Gaming online on PSN was a disaster me for all the games I tried; Killzone 2, UC2 and LBP. This doesn't include other features that are either outright missing or very late to the party with poor intergration.

Live and all it's features mean a lot to me. Having said that, this is where gaming journalism needs to step up and hammer MS on the details for the reason. I'm surprised none of them have posted anything about it. I'm sure instead of doing their job, they'll just bitch about it one some podcast instead....

 

[RudeCurve]

I think instead of raising the cost for Gold Live! subscriptions for EVERYONE they should've made the new features as pay options. I never watch ESPN sports so I will never use that "free to Gold members" feature which I'm sure is part of the $10 per year increase.

 

[corduroygt]

I think instead of raising the cost for Gold Live! subscriptions for EVERYONE they should've made the new features as pay options. I never watch ESPN sports so I will never use that "free to Gold members" feature which I'm sure is part of the $10 per year increase.

Not only that, but if your ISP is not on ESPN's allow list, you can't watch it, Gold or not.

 

[corduroygt]

Frankly, if PSN was my only option, I'd be back to PC gaming. Having sold my PS3 recently, there hasn't been one time where I've missed PSN. Gaming online on PSN was a disaster me for all the games I tried; Killzone 2, UC2 and LBP. This doesn't include other features that are either outright missing or very late to the party with poor intergration.

I played KZ2 and LBP so I can understand those a little bit, but UC2 is far from a disaster. It's not any less than XBL.

 

[Richard]

Surely with Live on PC and mobile, the intention is to have more subscribers? Are they likely to offer Live! services for free to PC gamers but not mobiles and 360?

Ouch, I was making a joke on how this price increase can only help PC gaming. Thanks for pointing out I suck at comedy!

 

[Scott_Arm]

Not only that, but if your ISP is not on ESPN's allow list, you can't watch it, Gold or not.

The ESPN website blocks some content to non-US citizens. I have a feeling this ESPN thing is USA only. So, I won't be watching.

 

[tha_con]

Frankly, if PSN was my only option, I'd be back to PC gaming. Having sold my PS3 recently, there hasn't been one time where I've missed PSN. Gaming online on PSN was a disaster me for all the games I tried; Killzone 2, UC2 and LBP. This doesn't include other features that are either outright missing or very late to the party with poor intergration.

Live and all it's features mean a lot to me. Having said that, this is where gaming journalism needs to step up and hammer MS on the details for the reason. I'm surprised none of them have posted anything about it. I'm sure instead of doing their job, they'll just bitch about it one some podcast instead....

A disaster how? I mean, this is where I get confused when people say it's so bad.

Because you couldn't figure out how to start a party? You didn't know how to invite people? You don't understand how the message system works? What exactly was a "disaster" (and yes, I'm certain that is hyperbole).

Almost everyone says the same, which is essentially "well it wasn't like live where I could just send an invite and play". Which is true, but that's not to say it's a disaster. It's different. They still function, you can still play games with friends. Sure, it's not as convenient as live, but not once have I run into a situation where I had a game I wanted to play with friends that I couldn't. Nor where it took an extremely long time to set up or accmoplish.

Performance wise, they are identical for online gaming (with PS3 definitely having better voice chat, at least until MS raises their bar, which is supposed to happen soon).

 

[Asher]

Not only that, but if your ISP is not on ESPN's allow list, you can't watch it, Gold or not.

In Canada, we don't even get access to much of the newer features that are probably reasons for the price increase (ESPN, Netflix, etc). Ridiculous.

I also hate PSN -- it's rather garbage, but you get what you pay for. I'll probably mostly be switching back to the PC where possible. The graphics capabilities are far beyond consoles now anyway.

 

[Billy Idol]

A disaster how?
Performance wise, they are identical for online gaming (with PS3 definitely having better voice chat, at least until MS raises their bar, which is supposed to happen soon).

Are you serious with PS3 having better voice chat quality?!?!?
I experience the exactly opposite...the only game I knew on PS3 is UC2, which has kind of acceptable voice chat and Resistance 2 being the best overall. But on Xbox360 voice chat quality is not only more consistent but IMO overall better - at least in my experience.

Here an example for you:
The biggest problem is when you want to meet up with people in a game and something unexpected happens.

If everything works ok, you meet in the lobby and can typically chat there...but if someone is missing due to what ever problem, and factoring in that he is probably new to online gaming - what next...where to meet, call by telephone is often the only option and is ultra lame IMO.
Getting back to XMB and meeting in the chat room, to talk - is ultra lame as well. If we had at least 1 to 1 chat, you could coordinate everything with a breeze...and it sucks that PSN does not support this!

Now talking about meeting not with one guy, but with a bunch of people gets frustrating very fast when something unexpected happens...how do you coordinate things when you cannot communicate?

If you are talking about playing online alone, which I do for instance in BF:BC2 - no problem at all, I just get online, right in to a game, and play...in such a case, there is indeed nothing missing...

 

[Arwin]

You can actually six-way (video) chat in the XMB, but I presume we're talking chatting while in a game, right? In this respect otherwise Home isn't all bad - if you're in Home in a personal space you can chat with plenty of people, and if someone has trouble getting into a game, you meet back there to discuss what went wrong, then go back in. This same strategy is possible through XMB. Of course it is annoying having to leave the game, but combined with the text chat, you can get where you need usually. And yes, calling by phone (with or without Skype on phones these days) still works too.

Yes of course it's great that you can voice chat with various people at the same time who are in different games or not yet together in a lobby, but if that's the be-all end-all of it ... this for me has almost never been 'the' issue about getting online, especially if the game doesn't suck in the first place. So far almost always text messages have been fine, the chat room not even necessary, though definitely useful for coordinating a group. We were there a while ago with a bunch of people and decided to see if we could go on and meet up in Home, which went easily enough (as there you can also join a friend whereever that friend is).

Again, I'm much more envious of something simple as the screen that tells me which of my other friends are playing this game, what they are currently doing, and if I want to invite them for a multi-player event. Most of Sony's bigger titles have this too (LBP does it very nicely) but it's a great 'universal' feature. Chatting with someone who's playing a different game is something I've never felt the need to use on the 360.

(And yes, the PS3 games sometimes have had much better voice quality than the 360 in my experience as well. Definitely not a rule of course, but 360 is consistently pretty low quality - the important part however is that it's always the same 'good enough' type of quality, which is more important in the end)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can actually six-way (video) chat in the XMB, but I presume we're talking chatting while in a game, right?

Because otherwise you ahve to launch the chat app and sit in it waiting until everyone's good to go.

Of course it is annoying having to leave the game, but combined with the text chat, you can get where you need usually.

Yes, you can get there in the end. But as I've said, I've experienced on several occassions a period of an hour trying to get there in the end. FWIW got into U2 without any troubles yesterday (apart from the annoyance of yet another patch that introduces who-knows-what, and a several minutes of LiveSyncing that does who-knows-what!)

Chatting with someone who's playing a different game is something I've never felt the need to use on the 360.

Quite often I can go online with my PS3 and see friends playing. I have before now sent messages which go missed if they're engrossed in whatever they're playing. Most importantly I'd like a chat system that has a PC client, so if I'm messengering someone about going online to play a game, and a third party is already on PS3 playing something else, being able to contact them and ask their opinion would be valuable. Basically a smart system would be a PS3 with PC client comms service, that allows messengering and chat across PSN users. this is something Sony were tooting, I'm sure, regards their cross-platform Network service that'd deliver content across platforms. Well, they've just worked out their media delivery platform (is that number three now? Or four?) so maybe they'll also sort out their background services too. (no, reallly, this time they'll actually deliver their promised services. No, honestly, this time really is the right time...)

(And yes, the PS3 games sometimes have had much better voice quality than the 360 in my experience as well. Definitely not a rule of course, but 360 is consistently pretty low quality - the important part however is that it's always the same 'good enough' type of quality, which is more important in the end)

360's is very low bitrate as I understand it. When PS3 works, it's very clear. Sadly it's not uniform, like everything PSN, so in some titles it's a garbled mess. As an average, consistently audible voice chat has to be better than sporadic higher-quality chat.

 

[NavNucST3]

I sold my PS3 about a month ago so PSN isn't an option for me and I'm not switching to Mac gaming anytime soon or even Boot Camp gaming. I will be paying for the family pack so this does not currently effect me but it still affects me...