Charlietus
Regular
The things I'm curious about is: will it have a dedicated SDK for developers, CPU and GPU on the die, will it be subsided? At least the reference design by Microsoft?
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
- Thread starter iroboto
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Yup this is what I’ve been saying for a while now. Fundamentally Phil mismanaged the Xbox brand and Satya is pushing his vision onto the brand since they spent so much money on Activision. Jez has corroborated the latter part about Satya. I think the whole legal battle about acquiring Activision(an acquisition Phil was doing to cover his a) led Satya to just want an end to the platform in its current form and the exclusivity aspect. To him, MS is a software company anyway. And if you’ve read Xbox history there has always been a diversionary goal imposed on the Xbox brand. The founders of Xbox were able to shield it from this which resulted into the 360 but then the Don Mattricks took over with their Home entertainment business. Then Phil came in with 100 directions and haphazard execution. So these moves are quite reactionary. OEM model is all but confirmed at this point. I’m sure there will be aspects of it executed well and those not. It will be interesting times. Biggest advantage for these will be precompiled shaders. My question is if they’ll have windows because if so that will be an interesting development. They could as well have multiple gamestores like Phil hinted. Which points to MS becoming fundamentally a 3rd party developer
Asus mobile PC model with external VGA, like this one only with different performance/price categories: https://rog.asus.com/external-graphic-docks/rog-xg-mobile-2023-model/
But probably in a nice Xbox console-like housing, which is also the dock.
But probably in a nice Xbox console-like housing, which is also the dock.
Maybe but I think MS is trying to get out of the hw business so dont think they’ll want to subsidize them. They’ve been trying to create a universal SDK since the 90s but that has its inherent limits. They need to create a devkit that virtualizes multiple configs. This is what I think. If they can standardize what type of CPUs and GPUs are allowed in the program that would definitely help not be in a PC situation where you cant precompile shaders. Devs would just precompile them for a few combinations of devices for the OEMs
Of course people would. And we'd all buy and play all our games on Steam and whatnot instead, which destroys the whole business model. People aren't going to limit themselves to Xbox versions of games for what amounts to fairly limited levels of better optimization with much less options/control and no modding or anything. PC gamers are already largely fine with playing games that have 'less optimization' than console versions of games. And games with genuinely poor optimization tend to also have poor console versions, too. Outside of some situation like compilation stutter, it's unusual that a game genuinely runs good on console, but not on PC.
There's just no way they could justify selling at subsidized prices without forcing people to buy Xbox versions of games. It is literally the entire business model of consoles.
Steambox flopped hard because nobody wanted to eat the cost so that valve could sell more games. So should MS subsidise hardware so that PC gamers get the ability to give valve 30% for every title sold?
Xbox could have a desktop mode though where you can run MS office or MS Edge, or maybe some MS game developer program? So they could call it Xbox E (education) and sell to schools and students but to allow all apps would pretty much kill the prize, or the XBox division
keeping the classic Xbox console fans is a given if the experience is streamlined for maximum efficiency and usability.
multiple hardware guidelines by Microsoft under some certification or seal of quality, could work.
The only issue are the drivers. Specially for Intel GPUs, which work really well with modern games, but classic games..., maybe the forward compatibility thing they are working on will help.
If they join efforts with Epic, itch.io, etc, they could also create a store, and a hub/frontend for other companies to have their own store easily. I'd certainly buy a Sony VAIO Sboy launching to Sony store from the get go -with super easy and obvious access to gamepass.
modding is something they should allow, and make it as easy as Steam has tried with Steam Workshop. I got some games on Steam that I'd rather get on windows store but didn't 'cos of lack of modding.
They'd have to integrate shader compilation into DirectX like on Proton. If people have a version of a game not running so optimised on Steam but running like a charm on the xbox store and with gamepass, that would be a huge difference maker, specially with certified hardware that can run the game at a certain quality.
But oems need to profit off the hardware. While Sony will eat costs. So xbox will be dead in a year
Also Sony has only been horrible as a company with its products when it is left alone. The amount of proprietary crap out of them is insane along with them jacking up pricing.
The sony stuff is mostly single player so it doesn't matter if you play year later. The multiplayer stuff seems to be day and date since those need thriving communities.
Surface pro has always been a reference device and there haven't really been any oem designs based on them. Its a poor choice and like I said xbox will be dead in a year if they do this and put all games day and date on playstation
If they go this route they wont make a traditional console anymore. Xbox will bed dead and the oem xbox stuff will be gone within a year or two just like plays for sure and windows phone and the like.
With no exclusives xbox fans will just leave the platform and there wont be anyone to enter the market like MS did when sega left. So we will be left with Nintendo and Sony. Expect PS6 to be the next ps3 out of touch with pricing and full of sony proprietary stuff
cheapchips
Veteran
Presumably MS will create a minimum hardware requirement, and quite nice industrial design, with the next Xbox(s). OEM models have to meet that to be certified for XboxOS. Vendors of XboxOS devices get a cut of store revenue. All devices can still boot to full Windows.
The question with OEM Xboxes, other than invariably worse industrial design, is what's the point? If the XboxOS SDK has a user friendly way of exposing PC game settings then they have some? You can pay extra for extra performance but that baseline is always there with the official box.
Like Eastmen, I'd give it two years.
The question with OEM Xboxes, other than invariably worse industrial design, is what's the point? If the XboxOS SDK has a user friendly way of exposing PC game settings then they have some? You can pay extra for extra performance but that baseline is always there with the official box.
Like Eastmen, I'd give it two years.
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
I don't think they necessarily need to subsidise the hardware. Nintendo have repeatedly managed to avoid that need.
I think that's a pretty good idea. It doesn't appeal to me, but there are probably a lot of people out there who would find XBox + MS apps very appealing.
I can easily explain to you why someone is an Xbox fan. First of all, the games, as you say, and Gamepass. But if we look at the current strategy, we can see that for about ten years there have been no more classic Xbox-only exclusive games, because all Xbox titles are also released for PC. Has this bothered Xbox fans so far? No, because they still bought tens of millions of consoles and play on them and pay for Gamepass. So if they switch to the XboxPC line (I think it's better to call it that instead of OEM for now), then if they get the same games in a nice simple and great console box, they'll choose that rather than the bulky desktop PC line. Especially if the games will be more optimized on their own interface, and this is a significant advantage. If the new Xbox is going to be hyped as giving you the best user experience, and it turns out to be true, then it will be a winner. If all this will be sold at a moderate price compared to the traditional expensive PC, and if everything will basically be based on a very lovable mobile design, then people will absolutely love it.Presumably MS will create a minimum hardware requirement, and quite nice industrial design, with the next Xbox(s). OEM models have to meet that to be certified for XboxOS. Vendors of XboxOS devices get a cut of store revenue. All devices can still boot to full Windows.
The question with OEM Xboxes, other than invariably worse industrial design, is what's the point? If the XboxOS SDK has a user friendly way of exposing PC game settings then they have some? You can pay extra for extra performance but that baseline is always there with the official box.
Eastmenhez hasonlóan én is két évet adnék rá.
If it is successful, many people will buy it, and Xbox fans will rather choose a platform where all their favorite games are available, on Xbox.
how do we save Xbox? Can they create something with AI that nobody can? How can they make the fanciest console to date so Xbox returns to the X360 days when there were a lot of users and you could play almost any game and find people to play?
Xbox is fine in the USA and that's a start. Thing is, in Europe Xbox is almost literally dead, idem in Asia.
Nobody stops them to try build a new Xbox console, it's compatible with having OEMs. The OEMs can be interesting because companies could take original approaches (i.e. Lenovo Legion Go is a pretty nice device, or the RoG ALLY, GPD Win 4 with its keyboard or Microsoft Surface).
There has been more innovation outside of the Xbox division (which wants to have Sony's success, a company that can't be beaten 'cos if has a great reputation) than inside Xbox.
In the world of Narnia maybe Sony or Nintendo can be beaten, but in the real world I don't know what MS could do to turn the situation around, not to beat anyone but at least for the Xbox to sell enough to be worth it.
This model just screams to me that most Xbox games are going to be available on Playstation moving forward and new releases day and date. A lot of people bought into Gamepass(myself included) because they thought they were getting a steady stream of great exclusive AAA titles from a multi trillion market cap company with solid reliable consumer gaming hw. Without delivering on the steady stream of high quality AAA titles, They're going to atrophy people at a much larger rate than even the Xbox One to Series move. The fundamental thing is consumers really really want something that just works and thats something like a Switch, or PS5 or Xbox 360. I think as others have said this hw model could be dead in a year or two.
But because even if they push out steady bangers, those bangers have to be on Playstation day and date in order to ensure the studios are making money. and without them ensuring a steady stream of consumers into their ecosystem with a console like model it would be quite hard to guarantee more expensive boxes from ASUS are going to achieve the same level of support, reliability and cost as something like a PS6. As well remember Sony breaks even on their initial gen machine in months to a year. Barring a global pandemic or WW3, PS6 will hit the ground running at either $499 or below. MS Xbox OEMs would need to be competing against this, so I dont see MS keeping their titles exclusive at all with this model. Consumers will get all the same titles on the PC/Steam and Playstation. I bet you're going to see other titles including Halo coming to Playstation.
We have discussed earlier that ms develops "cheap" consoles.
Just imagine Series S2, not X2, which is OEM and $399. Of course it means that xbox will not pursue high performance, like PS6 and PS5 Pro.
With multiple configs of fixed hw being sold you're going to reduce the volumes of expected/projected sales per configuration which in turn affects the expected economies of scale. Each OEM config will need to be profitable from launch since they dont make a cut off the software so I think as others have noted they will be more expensive. They're likely to sell(and possibly well) at prices above $499 because the $499 and below market it makes much more sense to buy a traditional console. You just cant beat the economies of scale of a company selling over 2 million such devices per quarter. They offer much better deals for the hw at those lower prices.
Yes so only entry level xbox is developed to be cheaper than other consoles. For instance an OEM series S2 may be $399.
Yeah that makes sense they could do that. I dont know how well the Series S has performed though. But most important thing is if Xbox tries making multiple hw configs as reference designs for OEMs they must have the same amount of RAM for say the Series S2 and Series X2. Maybe on a highend model they can increase RAM but having say less RAM than the base PS6 will be another recipe for disaster.
To me the only way they could actually save xbox is to actually invest in it.
1) Create a new xbox from the ground up launch before sony can launch a ps6.
2) make a shit ton of exclusives for it.
I think they can do Xbox Oem but they need to do the other two steps. Oems wont work in a subsidized market because oems need to make money off the hardware. Yea the Windows handhelds are interesting but the companies are making money off those. There really isn't competition for those devices outside of the steam deck
Like I said MS has the studios and they have the technology. They just need to leverage that for Xbox only.
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