Xbox 360: Focus shifts from Japan to Europe?

[Rangers]

This is only smart. MS is making a lot of head roads in Europe. Especially with the recent price drop/adjustment, and revitalized sku lineup such as the Arcade sku.

It seems like a no brainer, they haven't known this all along, which they probably did.

360 is doing a lot better in Japan than Xbox 1, anyway, believe it or not. So 360 will improve on Xbox 1 WW. It's just that say, 2X as well in Japan only means not quite as crappy.

Things are frankly set up very well for 360 to top Sony's effort in both the USA and Europe this generation. A lot of people probably dont follow sales as closely as me so they are still under the impression mainland Europe is still "Sony territory". Frankly right now, 360 is probably outselling PS3 in Europe excluding UK (UK is MS strongest country in EU). Europe correlates much more to the USA market in terms of software and price considerations, than Japan. If 360 wins the USA handily, it would be difficult for it to not win Europe imo.

All excluding Wii, of course, as I tend not to think in terms of the Wii, or about the Wii much at all, LOL.

 

[Zassk]

Forza 2 is already packed in with all console units in Canada. I assumed this was the case everywhere, but I guess not?

Most retail stores in Canada are also including a second game with the Forza 2 bundle, typically Viva Pinata or Kameo, but sometimes others.

 

[Tap In]

here's a start ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For a little context, here are the top 20 or so PS2 titles in EU according to vgchartz:

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (6.58 million)
Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Gran Turismo 4
Grand Theft Auto 3
Need for Speed: Underground 2
Need for Speed: Underground
Medal Of Honour Frontline
FIFA 06
FIFA 2005
FIFA 07
Driver Infogrames
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (WE10)
FIFA 2004
FIFA 2003
Eye Toy: Play
Pro Evolution Soccer 5 (WE9)
Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex
Medal Of Honour Rising Sun
Simpsons: Hit and Run
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Pro Evolution Soccer 4 (WE8)
Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (2.36million)

Do you think these titles, or rather franchises, are enough to get 40 million sales on their own? XB360 has these, right? PS3 also has them. Why will buyers choose XB360 over PS3? Just price? If the only games people are buying are these titles than yes, that makes sense. After all why spend £400 on a box to play GTA and FIFA and RacerGameGTPro when £300 can get you a box that plays the same games? But that's not the only deciding factor, and never has been. Putting it another way, how many people on this forum who play these key titles also have non-major games in their collection? Who's played Okami or Kingdom Hearts or Champions of Norrath or Pikmin or whatever else? If I'm a huge Pokemon fan and I have a choice between a £400 console with FIFA+GTA+Pokemon, and a £300 console with FIFA+GTA but no Pokemon, which box will I buy? Yes, we all play FIFA/PES, but that only isn't going to sell us a console! The major titles themselves aren't enough and I think diversity counts for everything...well, second to the presence of PES on a platform

 

[TheChefO]

Why will buyers choose XB360 over PS3? Just price?

From what I understand, the price difference is quite high. Isn't ps3 double the price?

If it were a small amount, I'd agree, but saving upwards of $300 isn't chump change to most, and yes that will lead to mass sales if/when they get their marketing effort in order.

Regarding game diversity, I believe it will come (to both) when the price is matched to mainstream acceptance.

Quirky nitch titles generally don't move mass units, especially at such high prices.

 

[StefanS]

From what I understand, the price difference is quite high. Isn't ps3 double the price?

It's 600 EUR incl. 2 games + 60 GB HDD + 2 controllers, so it's not exactly double the price.

 

[iceberg187]

Great idea.

Help establish the Forza franchise in "GT land" as a viable alternative for the future.

http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/HardwareBundle/~r332628/Xbox-360-Console-with-Forza-2-Medal-of-Honor-Airbourne-/

They are already on it.

 

[Tap In]

http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/HardwareBundle/~r332628/Xbox-360-Console-with-Forza-2-Medal-of-Honor-Airbourne-/

They are already on it.

whoa!

well there you go... goodbye Japan... hellllo!!!! Europe.

 

[TheChefO]

It's 600 EUR incl. 2 games + 60 GB HDD + 2 controllers, so it's not exactly double the price.

For comparison, how much is xb360?

 

[iXaarii]

I myself am torn what to go for: xbox360 seems like the better platform for reasons of price and more importantly shooters and western rpgs. I can't help but respect japanese rpgs for production values, but my MOST important value in games is freedom of choice, the one area where I think games could reach their true potential compared to books/movies... it saddens me that despite being out for so many years games are still playing out like a linear book/movie. I only see a game with a hint of choices like every 4 years at best (bloodlines 2004 i think, fallout 2 1998... )... i realize how hard they are to make though... anyway, returning to the point: i see nothing in that direction in japanese games, and if what some people say about japanese way of thinking wanting direction then indeed the only hope to be seen is in western games like what I hope mass effect will be.
So, these are strong reasons for me to opt for xbox360... however there are two pretty strong reasons to stick with sony:
- say i get my xbox360 next year, I wouldn't be very surprised to see by 2009 preparations for a next gen xbox and slowly abandoning of xbox360 like they did with the xbox. Meanwhile my ps2 is still constantly getting releases 7 years after launch.
- given how few games are trully the works of art that I'm looking, combined with the fact they are probably going to be spread out across platforms it means I should have them all to enjoy them all... but thing is being into graphics by both passion and jobs I end up having a gaming PC anyway (at the very least with the passage of time), so while I am sure to have access to Xbox360 games in time on the PC the same is not true for sony products. And to my surprise they have some amazing teams creating amazing artwork... stuff that I wouldn't want to miss out on.
Add to this the fact that the reason I started to play on consoles is to get away from PC tech problems at least once in a while and the result is that unless MS manages to grab the market seriously and also produce hardware with <1% failure rate I'll be one of those playing on the ps2 until the time of the ps3 comes. I only hope japanese games will start to be less about epic story and more about branching paths in sandbox worlds...

PS: this is my first beyond3d post... even though i have been watching you guys for years so i'll take the oportunity to express my huge admiration for all the people here, especially the graphics programmers & tech guys. There's a kazillion news sites and forums out there, a million views and articles on many topics... but it's only when I read you guys talking about a technology that i trully believe it. Oftentimes you get too technical even for my graphics programming background but it's exactly that reason for which i admire and trust you so much! Thank you!

 

[StefanS]

For comparison, how much is xb360?

Elite: 450 EUR
Premium: 350 EUR
Core: 280 EUR
Premium with Forza 2: 385 EUR

 

[Shifty Geezer]

- say i get my xbox360 next year, I wouldn't be very surprised to see by 2009 preparations for a next gen xbox and slowly abandoning of xbox360 like they did with the xbox. Meanwhile my ps2 is still constantly getting releases 7 years after launch.

That's not likely as XB360 isn't a black hole financially. XB lost MS with every unit sold, so they wanted to drop it ASAP. As long as XB360 is profitable to produce - which it will be this time around because MS control the chip IPs - they'll have reason to continue it.

As for works of art, IMO Sony have the best record here, not just last gen but also in announced titles. That's the platform where you get flOw and flOwers, the Heavy Rain thing, and all sorts of abstract things. It's where we'll get Team ICO's next product. Most don't appeal to me, but it's nice to know they're there. I can't think of any 'artworks' from MS's stable. They tend to focus much more on a western style of gaming. Makes sense, but I think that means their software lacks differentiation and where they lack appeal. There's no denying Sony are very willing to throw money at software development to produce a huge array of titles, artsy titles included. Of course the whole topic of 'work of art' is subjective, and one person's artwork is another's hackwork, so there isn't much discussion that can be in this respect!

 

[TheChefO]

Elite: 450 EUR
Premium: 350 EUR
Core: 280 EUR
Premium with Forza 2: 385 EUR

Not quite as substantial as I thought, but still a good bit cheaper than ps3.

Thanks for the info. :smile:

 

[Shifty Geezer]

From what I understand, the price difference is quite high. Isn't ps3 double the price?

Well that just shifts the choice from between two platforms to between one platform and another with a wait. Using my previous example, if I have to have Pokemon with my FIFA, should I get the £200 console without Pokemon, or wait for the £400 with Pokemon to drop in price?

Quirky nitch titles generally don't move mass units, especially at such high prices.

It's not all about quirky niche titles though! It's not like games are all either 'Mainstream' or 'Quirky Niche'. There's lots of 1 and 2 million sellers that don't make a best-ever list but which are valued. There's 500,000 and 200,000 unit titles that have their followers. FF didn't make Scooby's EU top seller list, but you know that for a lot of folk the presence of FF on PS2 is a reason to have it, knowing you can also play footy on it.

 

[TheChefO]

this is my first beyond3d post...

Welcome to B3D!

I'm sure whichever choice you make you'll be a happy camper. Both have some amazing titles available and coming.

 

[TheChefO]

It's not all about quirky niche titles though! It's not like games are all either 'Mainstream' or 'Quirky Niche'. There's lots of 1 and 2 million sellers that don't make a best-ever list but which are valued. There's 500,000 and 200,000 unit titles that have their followers. FF didn't make Scooby's EU top seller list, but you know that for a lot of folk the presence of FF on PS2 is a reason to have it, knowing you can also play footy on it.

Agreed, my example of manistream/casual vs hardcore is simply to illustrate my point and obviously there is a lot of grey area there.

Regarding the "wait", sure that's true, but some want their next-gen now. I certainly did over a year ago. As long as the majority of the games I'm interested in are playable ATM, I can wait for the few I'm missing on ps3 when ps3 pricing is more acceptable to me.

Also, the "wait" may end up putting titles one was once waiting for on the rival console which may already be priced low enough to pickup.



On artistic titles, I'd say Eternal Sonata is a beautiful game. Bioshock though morbid, also has a strong artistic presence.

In general, I agree Sony has emphasized these sort of titles more, but I see MS opening their door more and more to these types of experimental niche sellers as the userbase grows.

 

[Richard]

If Microsoft wants to win Europe, that's easy: don't ignore the Euro/Dollar exchange rate and more europeans will favour their consoles to the competition.

 

[iXaarii]

That's not likely as XB360 isn't a black hole financially.

As far as I know (is it different than i know?) they haven't even gotten to the point where they sell at a profit, let alone the point where they cover losses from initial year(s). However it seems to me that in the next 2 years ps3 may become a solid future platform leaving MS the somewhat forced oportunity to satisfy it's hardcore userbase with a new technology and it's features. Nothing bad with that... I always thought that a standardized "PC" locked in features for say 3 years would benefit gaming by guaranteeing a system with latest features on which all games run at max settings while at the same time not lagging too far behind in features... but at this time at least I'm more tempted by a longer term system. Still, seeing how much they've gained in the past by sacrificing xbox I wouldn't be surprised if they went the way sony is going now with ps2/ps3: sustaining both the older and the new platform.

As for works of art, IMO Sony have the best record here

If I had to name one reason why in all the sony bashing times of the past year i still thought they can't really lose (completelly) it's things like a Gamasutra article showing the ammounts of money they invested in actual studios for creation. It's my feeling that what is needed these days is not technlogy but content/artwork. I mean more hardware technology is always a great thing to have, but truth be told I'd happily play a old generation graphics title if it had a ton of dialogue lines, places to see, voice acting, interesting geometry, paintings, acting, cinematics...

 

[scooby_dooby]

. FF didn't make Scooby's EU top seller list, but you know that for a lot of folk the presence of FF on PS2 is a reason to have it, knowing you can also play footy on it.

FF-X was right on the fringe

But as I pointed out, 360 is bringing some strong titles in that genre as well.

Do you think these titles, or rather franchises, are enough to get 40 million sales on their own?

No, but I'm curious where this assertion comes from that EU needs more variety in their titles compared people to in the US? It's definately not reflected in the sales charts.

So, if the argument is that PS3 simply offers more diversity that 360 as of now, well neither have a huge breatdh of games. PS3 may have a couple more innovative 1st party titles, but if you go with overall breadth of software, 360 has to come out on top, simply due to the huge number of 3rd party titles.

XB360 has these, right? PS3 also has them. Why will buyers choose XB360 over PS3? Just price?

Ya pretty much. Price, games and strong marketing. The same reasons consumers are choosing the 360 over PS3 in North America.

 

[quest55720]

As far as I know (is it different than i know?) they haven't even gotten to the point where they sell at a profit, let alone the point where they cover losses from initial year(s). However it seems to me that in the next 2 years ps3 may become a solid future platform leaving MS the somewhat forced oportunity to satisfy it's hardcore userbase with a new technology and it's features. Nothing bad with that... I always thought that a standardized "PC" locked in features for say 3 years would benefit gaming by guaranteeing a system with latest features on which all games run at max settings while at the same time not lagging too far behind in features... but at this time at least I'm more tempted by a longer term system. Still, seeing how much they've gained in the past by sacrificing xbox I wouldn't be surprised if they went the way sony is going now with ps2/ps3: sustaining both the older and the new platform.

The market leader always want to extend the generation because the last few years is were all the money is being made. If the PS3 continues to do poorly sony will be first out the door with the PS4 to try and start over and win the next gen. The way things are going right now MS will want to keep the 360 around as long as possible to collect end of generation money. MS had no reason to keep the xbox 1 alive. It was a money pit with no end in site they were getting their tales kicked by sony. You think sony would be any different? You think they will just sit there with a failing system and eat cash for no reason? Market share and profit is going to determine the life span of a system.

The biggest reason MS did not make the hard drive standard was so one day they could get the 360 to 129 or less and still make a profit like sony is right now with the PS2.