Xbox 360: First Look at Final Hardware

[[maven]]

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64507 has posted first impressions on the final Xbox 360 hardware which was (is?) being shown in London. It is in German so I'll pick out a few interesting points to translate.

They were shown a non-final version of Kameo from Rare and the combination with Windows XP Media Center Edition + iPod + PSP. A lot of detail-improvements compared to Xbox, but a lot of useful ports and options were left out as not to make Windows MCE obsolete.

- No digital interfaces to displays / TVs. No MPEG-4, VC-1 or H.264, only MPEG-1 and 2, but some may be added in a firmware upgrade (either online or via new games - users don't get a choice). This will also be used to fix security holes.

- Only via streaming from MCE can WMV-HD be played, but only non-DRM'd ones. DRM'd content will only be streamed in single definition (480p?). Computer with Windows XP can only stream music or photos.

- 2 front USB-ports, 1 in the back for MP3-player, PSP, USB memory sticks, digital camera, or external HDDs with music (MP3, WAV, WMA) and photos. Can be combined (e.g. slideshow from camera + music from MP3-player). Music can be played in games, but NO DATA can be copied onto the internal hard-disk. No movie-playback from external storage.

- Cooling via 3 fans (to the back of the case). RPM is dependant on CPU usage / temperature in the case. When playing DVDs, the fans spin slowly, in games faster. First impression is that the 360 is quieter than the Xbox, but even when idle it is louder than 1 sone and thus noticeable in quiet surroundings.

- Presentation was with the native resolution of the console, 1280x720, higher resolutions will simply be upscaled. The following resolutions can be set in the dashboard: 640x480, 848x480, 1024x768, 120x720, 1280x768, 1360x768. No 1920x1080 (1080i).

- Graphics:: Only seen Kameo. No anti-aliasing (this decision is left to developers if they rather want other effects (DoF / motion blur / etc.) than AA). For HDR, games can use up to 64bit color depth (FP16?). No 128bit support (too much bandwidth). Game looks good with graphics to be expected next year in the PC space. People were impressed but nobody's jaw had to be picked up from the floor.

- Controller, very similar to S-Controller. Wireless version (rechargeable battery included (this is different from what I've heard)) should be good for 30h, can continue playing while charging. Controller as well as remote (included in 400 Euro version) can tun the console on or off.

- The HDD can be used to save games (same as memory card). Games can use the HDD as cache to shorten loading times. Currently only 20GB version planned which cannot be user-replaced by a larger one.

- Xbox 1 Combatibility: Still no list of games, more popular ones first. Exactly the same look as on Xbox (i.e. no extra AA or similar). Game saves cannot be copied from Xbox to 360.

- Marketplace. Payment in points, can be bought with CC (or prepaid cards). Can buy additional levels, skins, game content, mini games (aka Xbox Arcade), all of which is saved on the HDD.

- Messaging: Own messaging service with text and voice messages. Can use USB keyboard; video messages are only possible with a Gold Xbox Live account; for which Microsoft will offer a USB-camera next year. Gold is also needed for playing online games.
Will keep track of past gaming achievements to make it easier to find friends / same level players.

- Will be here December 2nd. Up to christmas, 20 to 40 games will be published.

- (Their) Conclusions:

Improved upon Xbox, but no "killer features". Users of the Xbox 1 shouldn't throw it away, as there is no guarantee for compatible games and all their save-games would be lost. Home entertainment users can use the console as progressive DVD player, but not for HD or DivX (or need to buy Media Center PC).
The new games have more detailed gfx, but whether that is enough to convince Xbox fans to buy it is questionable. That is dependent on the available games, where fresh ideas are needed. For casual gamers 400 Euro is a lot of money, but the 300 + 35 Euro version is not justifiable for the 65 Euro price difference. This market segment will hardly buy Xbox Arcade games when the same can be head for free on the internet for the PC. Thus it will be difficult for Microsoft to position the Xbox 360 between the PS3 for High-End enthusiasts and the Nintendo Revolution for casual gamers to expand their market share.




Phew!

 

[mckmas8808]

These have to be wrong.

Music can be played in games, but NO DATA can be copied onto the internal hard-disk. No movie-playback from external storage.

No 1920x1080 (1080i).

Currently only 20GB version planned which cannot be user-replaced by a larger one.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Only via streaming from MCE can WMV-HD be played, but only non-DRM'd ones. DRM'd content will only be streamed in single definition (480p?). Computer with Windows XP can only stream music or photos.

That sucks. Thats the one point that really caught my eye. So DRM will work against the 360, I wonder why they couldn't add some type of authentication software so DRM software could still be streamed....but I guess 480p for DRM'ed software is how its going to be.

 

[Titanio]

I think the bit about the hard disk "cannot be user-replaced by a larger one." simply means you can't take a regular hard disk from elsewhere and use it. Only MS/X360 hard disks, and I'm sure there'll be bigger ones later.

Kameo won't have AA at all, or just not yet? The comments about that and the eDram struck me as the weirdest.

 

[[maven]]

I think the bit about the hard disk "cannot be user-replaced by a larger one." simply means you can't take a regular hard disk from elsewhere and use it. Only MS/X360 hard disks, and I'm sure there'll be bigger ones later.

Yup.

Kameo won't have AA at all, or just not yet? The comments about that and the eDram struck me as the weirdest.

These comments struck me as odd, too (especially as I thought 2xAA was "for free"). I think it's due to their framebuffer effects (Depth of Field). The way they phrased the "no AA" in Kameo I think there won't be any in the final game, but it can be interpreted both ways.

mckmas8808, why do you think these points cannot be right? AFAIK, they do not contradict earlier official info.

 

[AlNom]

These have to be wrong.

Music can be played in games, but NO DATA can be copied onto the internal hard-disk. No movie-playback from external storage.

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

 

[mckmas8808]

mckmas8808, why do you think these points cannot be right? AFAIK, they do not contradict earlier official info.

Well the HDD bit was explained by Titanio so that's cool. But what about the no 1080i? I could have sworn MS said they will have 1080i.

And what about this?

NO DATA can be copied onto the internal hard-disk. No movie-playback from external storage.

I thought you could copy your MP3s to the hard disk? And what I thought you could watch movie playback from external storage.

 

[mckmas8808]

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

Huh? What?

 

[scificube]

I don't think devs are forced to choose AA or DoF or HDR. I think it means MS eased off a bit a let devs have the choice of turning AA off if they wanted to implement something else in it's place.

I agree with Titanio in thinking the HD issue is one where MS won't allow gamers to go an buy their own HD to use with the X360.

The need for a MCE PC for allot of things kinda stinks in my opinion. No upgrade for Xbox game's graphics kinda sucks too....one would be better served in holding onto their Xbox then.

I also disagree with their outlook on the X360's graphics. Kameo is a launch game where devs had little time and dev kits came slow. I don't think it's fair to be dismissive about the X360's graphics just yet.

edit:

MS will have 1080i...it'll just be upscaled from 720p if I understand what the article says correctly. I wonder though.

 

[[maven]]

I thought you could copy your MP3s to the hard disk? And what I thought you could watch movie playback from external storage.

I understand that as "either rip from CD (maybe even MP3 CDs?) onto the internal HDD or play directly from an external device. I would suspect they don't copy from external devices as a concession to the RIAA or similar. And they've only shown music and photos from external devices, movies were always streamed.

 

[[maven]]

I don't think devs are forced to choose AA or DoF or HDR. I think it means MS eased off a bit a let devs have the choice of turning AA off if they wanted to implement something else in it's place.

Yes, that's what they're saying. A lot of framebuffer effects make AA harder to do.

MS will have 1080i...it'll just be upscaled from 720p if I understand what the article says correctly. I wonder though.

They are saying there is no 1080i option selectable in the dashboard, so it simply isn't there. It could be that they plan to add it later (with a firmware upgrade), though.

 

[NavNucST3]

That sucks. Thats the one point that really caught my eye. So DRM will work against the 360, I wonder why they couldn't add some type of authentication software so DRM software could still be streamed....but I guess 480p for DRM'ed software is how its going to be.

Whats even more interesting about this is the fact that MSFT in their announcement the other day, about why they are backing HD DVD, they want the user to be able to make a copy, but for some reason STREAMING from my own computer to my own xbox 360 a movie that I own, is somehow not supported. That definitely needs a firmware update, day one.

 

[scificube]

Maven:

Yep. You be right! I would hope that upgrade is coming soon...like launch day. No 1080i would a bad move on MS's part.

 

[one]

Images from the recent nFactor2 demo were labelled as direct-captured from a devkit, but they are 1024x576, with 2xAA. Also, in NBA2K6 images in gamespot, 1024x576 images have no noticeable jaggies while other 720x1280 / 1280x720 images at IGN have jaggies all over, so internal resolution may be tweaked for these games to fit in eDRAM for higher frame rate.

EDIT: NFL -> NBA

 

[Lysander]

What does he mean with "no aa for kameo"? There is no reason that game would not have it, as it is for "free".

 

[NavNucST3]

Well the HDD bit was explained by Titanio so that's cool. But what about the no 1080i? I could have sworn MS said they will have 1080i.

And what about this?



I thought you could copy your MP3s to the hard disk? And what I thought you could watch movie playback from external storage.

The latest interview of Major Nelson on the Chris Pirillo(sp?) Show clarified this, the only way to store on the drive itself is to rip from a cd, or whatever you download from the marketplace.
I think msn music at some point or another will be tied into the 360, but thats my speculation.

 

[scificube]

Images from the recent nFactor2 demo were labelled as direct-captured from a devkit, but they are 1024x576, with 2xAA. Also, in NFL2K6 images in gamespot, 1024x576 images have no noticeable jaggies while other 720x1280 / 1280x720 images at IGN have jaggies all over, so internal resolution may be tweaked for these games to fit in eDRAM for higher frame rate.

This is wierd. I thought Dave's article showed how the e-Dram could handle 720p+AA. I can imagine this tweaking may be necessary with the nFactor2 demo if they're trying to do AA+(HDR/DoF/etc.) I don't see where Madden is using effects that would preclude AA from being used...unless they're using DoF and it's more costly that I thought.

 

[Lysander]

You mean that edram smart logic can not handle different effects at the same time on 720p.

 

[scificube]

You mean that edram smart logic can not handle different effects at the same time on 720p.

It's looking that way. It's certainly a logic issue as there's bandwith out the wazzoo in the e-Dram. Could be devs just don't know how to work the e-Dram well enough yet.

 

[one]

I don't see where Madden is using effects that would preclude AA from being used...unless they're using DoF and it's more costly that I thought.

Sorry it's not Madden but NBA It seems they use DOF for audience.