Xbox 360: First Look at Final Hardware

you are correct re:

1080i is possible

 

I'm not saying DoF can't be done. I find it odd that it "can't" be done along with AA given how AA is supposed to be used freely and without fear. With 256GB/s of bandwith in the eDram I can't imagine that's where a limitation would arise. I then look to the logic portion of the daughter die. From what I understand it's a good amount of it in being able to perform z-tests, AA etc. I would have thought MS and ATI would have some extra logic on the die so that AA could be used AND other things could be done at the same time.

I am not convinced yet this is not the case. I'm waiting to see how this plays out. Xenos is so elegant and intelligent in it's design that I'm having some difficulty seeing this would be overlooked or intentionally designed.

 

So it looks like the its the logic itself thats the root of the problem.
What about HDR??? i cant remember seeing hardly any 360 games that have it implemnted.
Or maybe its just a case of PS2 all over again, DEV's need to get used to the hardware.

 

I don't think it's clear yet what the issue is, if there is one. This is pretty speculative stuff. I'm personally more suspicious of the tiling, but on the logic side obviously the more you do, the more time it's going to take (even if you have all the bw in the world). I don't know how big of a deal it is for the logic, computationally, to do AA+HDR+other effects. It might be a combination of things.

As ERP said earlier, for titles coming out soon, every little bit may count as far as keeping the framerate smooth goes, and it could be a matter of the straw breaking the camel's back. Hopefully it wouldn't remain that way.

 

Why are we getting all worked up over some little article that surfaced on the net. Let's wait until Tuesday and Wednesday.

 

PGR3 defiantely does.

I also believe Kameo, PDZ, CoD2, and Oblivion do as well.

 

Kameo?? every video interview i have seen its always been called light bloom and not HDR.

Whats going on

Is that FP16 mode that 360 use's any good compared to the other version???

 

APologies on the insinuation on the tranlation.

Anyway, my understand is that you dont render 1080i, or any interlaced signal. Arent all signalls progressive and then converted to interlaced by the Scaler chip?

J

 

Could this final hardware be for developers not consumers? How different are the dev kits compared to the retail units we get?

 

But that display-based upscaling in many HDTVs leads to lag in the output and varies in the quality of the scaling itself...better to leave the scaling to a dedicated unit in the system to do the job. By doing that, the possiblity of HD-lag seen in many displays is circumvented.

 

Here is a quote from a Microsoft employee that hangs around GA.

 

Yes.

CoD2 is a definitive no. Who has seen enough of PDZ to know anything? Oblivion would be a yes it appears (don't quote me on that). Kameo...

1080i HDTVs can scale a 720p image. Yet 1080i is supported by the hardware and is in the spec, so who knows what is going on here.

Most launch games don't go gold for another 4-6 weeks, but it would be surely odd if the dashboard did not include 1080i support--especially since it is supporting every other oddball HDTV resolution.

Not news. And the last time I checked DVDs were really popular and a progressive scan one would be a nice upgrade, especially for a 2ndary home unit. No HD media out and DivX? If you have the media you have something to play it on. I personally don't know anyone with DivX material.

I don't know their reader base but it really does appear to be slanted considering the darth of information and the non-release status of the platform--and those it is comparing it to. How can they honestly compare it to the PS3 and Rev without knowing the games or prices?

Obviously they missed the press notes about Nintendo aiming for a slightly different demo graphic and being a "2nd console". To consider the Xbox 360 a "casual" device crunched between the two and the PS3 "High-End" without seeing finished games or the final hardware strikes me as an editor who already has an opinion on the subject. Since author is writing from a lot of conjecture I am surprised he did not mention Kutaragi's comments on price. He obviously has a right to a conclusion, but basing one without really knowing what he is comparing it to--yet doing so anyhow--kind of smacks of poor journalism.

As for Xbox Arcade, without MS pushing it I doubt it will be a factor. But a little known fact is "mothers" are one of the largest gaming demographics. Computers are expensive. If you can get little johnny a gaming machine and play solitair at night on the same machine--for only $300--well, that is not something to outright dismiss. Hardcore gamers and journalists are really idiots when it comes to things like Myst, Sims, Deer Hunter, etc. The fact the massive "mother" game market goes unrepresented and unnoticed by very few is evidence of this.

I don't see MS really angling for that market, but they are leaving the door open. Women are a significantly untapped market and I would not undervalue the possibility of getting consumers on a $300 machine compared to much more expensive PCs. I don't think that is MS's primary goal--especially in a time when the console is a loss leader and this market wont be contributing back with heavy game sales--but down the road I think MS and Sony will be looking at the female market MUCH more seriously.

 

And since ERP is the only one in the thread who actually knows what he's talking about it's probably good to listen to him.

Xenos seems like a more complicated GPU to develop for than RSX, and it's certainly an architecture developers haven't had a chance to use before, so there's bound to be a learning curve as ERP suggested. MS might even have relaxed the standards a bit for launch titles (i.e. AA requirements) in order to ensure that frame rates are stable.

It's only a few more days until their big show so we should have some answers then, maybe.

 

I don't know why this is being discussed as if the article was fact when everyone knows its not.

I mean here's a German's response ont his.

 

I think this are all the same res pictures (in original); different websites just posted them in different format; same happened with ghost recon.

 

I have no problem dismissing the site.

But ERP is knowledgable and very trustworthy--he is a developer working with the hardware. His comments are interesting, constructive, and quite instructive on the current state of affairs.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out at launch and, more importantly, in the next 6 months as devs actually get a handle on the hardware.

 

I'm not going to dismiss an article because some body who seems by that post to be quite baised himself says the site is biased.

 

Global illumination on Xenos?!?!