Xbox 2 Hardware 'LOCKED DOWN' - More Information in 2005

[Megadrive1988]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/front_index.php?

Monday 17th May 2004


E3 2004: EXCLUSIVE: XBOX 2 HARDWARE 'LOCKED DOWN', 'NO PLANS' FOR 2004 ANNOUNCEMENT

J Allard confirms next-gen details are finalised, but warns against expecting Microsoft to go public this year

16:12 E3 2004 has been and gone and, as expected, Microsoft refused to reveal concrete details on next-generation hardware, instead using its pre-show press conference to home in on current-gen software, bolstered by an updated showing of its XNA software platform which will drive next-generation development.
During the show, however, we were able to grill Xbox supremo and chief XNA architect J Allard further on his next-generation plans, with the Xbox creator giving a clearer picture of where the company is at in terms of readiness and revelations.

With much discussion at GDC over whether or not Xbox 2 would ship with a built in hard drive and other specific details, we asked Allard if, at this stage, absolutely final decisions on Xbox 2 hardware had been taken.

"Pretty much, yes," Allard confirmed. "The next-generation is the hardware manifestation of the XNA platform; think of XNA as the successor if you will of DirectX.

"That's how we're thinking about it; and if you think about it being a software platform driving hardware, it allows you to think about hardware differently so I think there will be a couple of surprises. We've made decisions and the team is locked." When asked if the name of the system had also been chosen, Allard laughed and repeated: "The team is locked".

But despite this apparent self-assurance, Microsoft will not be pressured into making any early announcements on its plans. "I could talk for the next week about our next generation plans if I wanted to," Allard told us. "The reason we chose not to is that it's really important for retail and for the business to have a successful 2004."


Then in a surprise statement, which appears to place Xbox 2 further off the radar than expected, Allard added: "We'll be talking about [Xbox 2] next year for sure, but I think it's going to be a very quiet 2004 in terms of next-generation plans from us."

But this is of course in a constant state of flux and open to influence from outside pressures, particularly dependent on the movements of Microsoft's main rival, Sony. With mounting speculation suggesting Sony's next-gen hardware is further off than the company would like to admit, however - Sony did reveal that first development kits of its Cell-powered hardware wouldn't be ready until the end of '04 at the earliest - this gives Microsoft, notwithstanding its determination that "we won't be beaten to market", plenty of breathing space for now.

For the full transcript of our exclusive E3 interview with J Allard, where he gives his opinion on PSP, and talks in detail on the software demos developers are already creating for the next-generation of Xbox hardware, check back later in the week.

Johnny Minkley

other than C&VG's confusing subject header of 'Xbox 2 hardware locked down' which sounds to me like Xbox 2 hardware is set in stone (it probably isnt just yet) basicly, Microsoft will give details / information on Xenon - Xbox 2 in 2005, which would indicate to me, a 2006 launch. this fits well with DaveB's comments that the new Xbox would be using R600, or some derivative of it, rather than R500/R520.

 

[Lazy8s]

There's no reason Microsoft has to have their big unveiling of Xbox 2 over a year in advance of launch. When they want some of the focus to shift to Xbox 2, that's when they'll start the hype.

 

[Tahir2]

All this talk of locked down and not locked down is silly. XBox2 is locked down from an architectural standpoint. The only thing that is not locked down will be clockspeeds and for that MS will have to wait for silicon back from the fabs. This is the way it has been for a while now (as far back as the Atari Jaguar).

 

[zurich]

I'm guessing the amount of RAM is fairly flexible too.

 

[jvd]

I'm guessing the amount of RAM is fairly flexible too.

Yea i'd have to agree .

We could also say the ps 3 hardware is locked down too . Same goes for the new nintendo system. IT would have to be as developers need to have a target to start programing for . So if we are expecting hardware from all these companys in the next year to year and a half they would have to be.

I would wager many devs have been given r420s and fast athlon 64 systems as a target for now .

 

[Tahir2]

... fast athlon 64 systems

I think it is dual Power Mac G5 systems in fact. (Could be seriously wrong here... help!).

 

[jvd]

... fast athlon 64 systems

I think it is dual Power Mac G5 systems in fact. (Could be seriously wrong here... help!).

I dunno. There is no news about r420s for mac systems . I'm sure if ati was going to invest in r420 cards for xbox 2 dev kits on a mac they would just put them out for the macs too. Why do the set up work twice

 

[DeanoC]

Its Apple hardware but its not running an Apple OS so any work done on a R420 wouldn't be useable on an Apple OS.

 

[jvd]

Its Apple hardware but its not running an Apple OS so any work done on a R420 wouldn't be useable on an Apple OS.

See i figured a dual athlon 64 fx 3400+ system with pci e as the dev platform. Since that would be the fastest thing out right now and would be closest to the performance of the xbox 2 cpu

 

[Tahir2]

dual athlon 64 fx 3400+ system with pci e

There is no such thing at the moment. The dual Opteron systems are different beasts to the Athlon64 brand and no systems currently have PCI-E.

The reason MS gave out POWER based systems is because they are based on IBM processors and have more similarity to the Xbox 2 than a system based on X86 would ever have.

There is more to game development that the art side and graphics side. You also need to start coding at the ground level and a Dual Power G5 system lets you do that to a limited extent. XNA and all the rest of the development tools are never going to advance to a level where you can code a game in X86 and target a PC Platform and then convert it to the targetted Xbox 2 platform in less than (arbitrary figure here) 6 months.

I'm sure DeanoC will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[DeanoC]

Main use of Alpha kits (what we are talking about) is to get used to PowerPC architecture. Things like VMX instructions, make sure any code work with big-endian, etc.

Also the actual OS and lots of XNA code can be written in situ, if they had to write that for x86-64 it would be thrown away. MS seem pretty hot on the whole ease of use mantra and that itself needs close hardware.

Still Alpha kits are a long way from real hardware.

In someways its also a statement, Xenon isn't a PC get used to it...

 

[archie4oz]

See i figured a dual athlon 64 fx 3400+ system with pci e as the dev platform. Since that would be the fastest thing out right now

Depends on what you're running... I've run some matrix heavy floating-point routines that floored a dual Opteron 248... Where as a lot of spaghetti code routines seem to be the domain of Athlons in general...

There is no news about r420s for mac systems

There never is until the hardware is announced avialable for the platform...

 

[Wunderchu]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14407




(I first heard about that article from nAo 's post here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10489&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 )


... also, check out Panajev2001a's post here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10489&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

...the first news of Microsoft's Xbox division working with Dual G5 workstation is dated quite a bit back in time...

 

[wco81]

They have very little to gain and a lot to lose by announcing this year, especially if they launch in 2005.

Because letting the world know they will have a better system in one year just undercuts current Xbox and Xbox games sales.

Especially if as suspected Xbox 2 isn't backwards-compatible, which would severely reduce the longetivity of Xbox games people buy this year.

 

[jvd]

I think we are going to end up with a 2 ghz cpus in the xbox 2 and a 700-800mhz gpu in it . most likely 16x1

 

[Megadrive1988]

a 16x1 VPU at 800 Mhz sounds ok to me. or a 32x1 VPU at 500 Mhz.

whatever it takes to hit the 10 Gpixel barrier.

the current Xbox should've had at least 1.2 billion pixel fillrate and 4.8 billion AA samples, but the core clock was cut back twice.

I figure for there to be enough of an increase in fillrate over Xbox, the Xbox Next will need at least 10x what the Xbox was originally supposed to have.[i/]

I want to see at least a N64 to GCN like leap going from Xbox to Xbox Next.

 

[jvd]

a 16x1 VPU at 800 Mhz sounds ok to me. or a 32x1 VPU at 500 Mhz.

whatever it takes to hit the 10 Gpixel barrier.

u have to under stand a 16x1 at 800mhz is 12800gpixels .

at 640x480 thats really over kill. I would be surpised if they couldn't run all games with at least 6x fsaa . Not to mention anything else they do for fsaa and aniso to get it to run those modes faster.

 

[Megadrive1988]

well, I'd like 8x FSAA on everygame, all the time. fillrate gets eaten with AA and other things. no such thing as overkill IMHO.

 

[jvd]

well, I'd like 8x FSAA on everygame, all the time. fillrate gets eaten with AA and other things. no such thing as overkill IMHO.

well with my friends x800pro i can run 6x fsaa at 1027x768 in farcry and it runs very nicely .

I don't think a card with with almost double the fillrate would have trouble with 640x480 with 8x fsaa either

 

[wco81]

But they have to support HDTV resolutions, not 640x480 (which requires at least a progressive scan TV or an HDTV anyways).

1080i or 1080p even.

720p should be automatic but somewhat of a letdown. It would be looking back whereas 1080p would be looking forward to 1080p display devices, which should be out well within the next 5 years.