Xbox 2 ATI East - R500 by ATI West, so GCN2/N5 GPU is what?

[Almasy]

I've always included R6xx as a possibility for Xbox 2. if MS has decided or later decides Xbox 2 isnt coming until 2006, then an R6xx VPU is what they'll need. even the likely awesome R500 will be getting old after 2007 much like Xbox seems old now. at least techwise.

my greatest desire for Xbox 2 and PS3, hardware wise, is scalability. even though it probably won't happen.

Well Megadrive, you gotta remember this is a fixed plattform, it WILL get old. In fact, GF4 was released shortly after the Xbox was, but that didn´t stop its titles to look good, did it?

If you ask me, I´d say everyone should forget about Xbox2 having a R6xx, it just isn´t feasible.

 

[PC-Engine]

Its long been thought that N and MS might team up.

They share the same street address and Im sure have had quite a few lunches together.

Ive said before I wouldnt be suprised to see Nintendo release a game only system, while MS releases a version that includes more abilities/features while being pretty much the same base system.

Both are PowerPC/IBM type CPUs, both are Ati graphics. Both coming out in the same timeframe.

XNA

 

[Wunderchu]

Isn't there an article with someone from ATI saying that two different teams are working Nintendo and MS GPU's seperately.

yes:

Don't expect the graphics capabilities of future Nintendo and Microsoft products to be exactly the same, however, the ATI spokesman said. "Yes, we have different design teams working on them, with different requirements and different timetables," the spokesman said.

(source: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1220430,00.asp )

 

[Magnum PI]

isn't one of those team the ex-artx people which worked on flipper ? (and some of them worked on N64 GPU as well)

it sounds reasonable that the same people work work on next nintendo GPU.

 

[aaaaa00]

XNA

Xbox / Nintendo Architecture.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Xbox / Nintendo Architecture.

ha, ha, ha

 

[Brimstone]

If ATI sticks to an 18 month product cycle, R500 won't be released until winter 2005, which is when X-Box 2 should get here (maybe?). R600 doesn't have a chance of being released earlier than the middle of 2007, so it's not really an option for X-Box 2. As far as R500 being a 90nm part, remember R500 isn't the exact same thing that's going into X-Box 2. If they add a significant amount of embedded ram to the chip a 65nm process would make sense.

Right now it looks like Sony will launch the PS3 in 2006 or 2007. A 2005 launch while still possible, probably isn't going to happen, so Microsoft has to adjust their strategy from a possible 2005 head-to-head launch with a .90nm basterized R500 VPU to something more updated. Maybe I misunderstood the term "floating design" for the X-Box 2 contract. To me it seems Microsoft has the flexability to choose several different cores depending on the time frame they need to launch.

With 2005 out of the picture Microsoft can go with what ATI has in the pipeline for 2006. If a team-up of Microsoft and Nintendo is in the works, I could see ATI devoting a very large amount of engineers to make sure the Microsoft/Nintendo platform gets the best world class VPU ATI can design for a .65nm node. The potential payoff for ATI could be huge if ATI gets a royalty for ever game sold on the platform. From what I understand ATI does get a royalty for ever game sold on the GameCube.

I wouldn't fault ATI for sacrificing a product cycle for the PC, in exchange for making the best part it can to help Microsoft/Nintendo have a platform that becomes the market leader by beating Sony. If the game console market gets a reversal of fortune and Microsoft/Nintendo dethrone Sony and get a 75% market share, ATI and its investors would be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Deadmeat]

...

Xbox Next is launching in Xmas 2005 regardless of SCEI's schedule. MS has no love for the current high-cost Xbox and would like to see it replaced with the simplier machine ASAP.

Feb 2004 : Xbox dev kit distributed.
Mar 2004 : XNA announced. IBM discusses XCPU2 and CELL.
Summer 2004 : Xbox Next officially unveiled.
May 2005 : Xbox Next Hype in full swing
Xmax 2005 : Xbox Next launched.

 

[jvd]

I don't believe its going to have an r420 a r500 or an r600. I think its going to have something between the r500 and r600. Not all of the r600 tech but most of it but also not clocked as low as the r500

 

[kemosabe]

The potential payoff for ATI could be huge if ATI gets a royalty for ever game sold on the platform. From what I understand ATI does get a royalty for ever game sold on the GameCube.

ATI gets a royalty on each GameCube console sold, but as far as software goes it has been reported that the (modest) royalties apply only to first-party titles.

 

[Wunderchu]

I don't believe its going to have an r420 a r500 or an r600. I think its going to have something between the r500 and r600. Not all of the r600 tech but most of it but also not clocked as low as the r500

hmmm .... you may be correct .......

 

[pc999]

I don't believe its going to have an r420 a r500 or an r600. I think its going to have something between the r500 and r600. Not all of the r600 tech but most of it but also not clocked as low as the r500

hmmm .... you may be correct .......

It is what they did with the Geforce3

 

[Megadrive1988]

R500 for PC is ment to be 90nm / .09 micron

Xbox 2 GPU is ment to be 65nm / .065 micron

Xbox 2 GPU will likely be a customized variant of R500 or R550 (or whatever is the refresh of R500 is) which would no longer be a R500. call it R5XX.

so yeah, we are still probably looking at something between R500 and R600.

 

[jvd]

It will be more than just a speed bump of the r500. It will have alot of tech from the r600 and I'm figureing even if the ram speeds end up being that of the r500 or its refresh the core will be clocked much higher as i think its going to need to worry more about being shader limited than bandwidth limited

 

[Megadrive1988]

oh, and don't forget the reported eDRAM / embedded memory, for at least the framebuffer. this may, or may not, be exclusive to Xbox 2 GPU. it could be that the PC R500 does not have eDRAM / embedded memory (not counting the usual caches).

The other things I wonder about, are the graphics patents / IPs that MS holds...if MS wants these implemented into Xbox 2 GPU. Also, Microsoft has those Cagent (former 3DO Systems) engineers in their WebtV/MSNTV division. I wonder if they are working with the ATI engineers on Xbox 2 GPU.... lots of questions, probably no answers to them right now....

 

[jvd]

oh, and don't forget the reported eDRAM / embedded memory, for at least the framebuffer. this may, or may not, be exclusive to Xbox 2 GPU. it could be that the PC R500 does not have eDRAM / embedded memory (not counting the usual caches).

The other things I wonder about, are the graphics patents / IPs that MS holds...if MS wants these implemented into Xbox 2 GPU. Also, Microsoft has those Cagent (former 3DO Systems) engineers in their WebtV/MSNTV division. I wonder if they are working with the ATI engineers on Xbox 2 GPU.... lots of questions, probably no answers to them right now....

well they might be doing the back end design on the chip.

Who knows there is a ton we don't know mabye even less than we know of the ps3

 

[Ender]

There was a discussion in another forum about a possibility for a 2 GPU configuration on Xbox2...

would this by a "solution" or will it add to much cost?

 

[cthellis42]

R500 for PC is ment to be 90nm / .09 micron

Xbox 2 GPU is ment to be 65nm / .065 micron

...and ment is meant to be meant.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I've always been horrible at spelling.