Revolution's graphics subsystem: 2 sep cores - ATI AMR ?

[Shifty Geezer]

I vote as fake. Why are Nintendo going around saying graphics isn't everything, power isn't everything, and then throw a ton of expensive, high performance components in, AND not actually have decided what the 'revolutionary' part is yet, AND have developers working on devkits without any idea what the actual control scheme will be (they don't know what the 'revolutionary' part is yet!)?

Nowt but pipedreams.

 

[McFly]

If this specs are believable, than a PS3 with two 1-8 Cell CPU's at 4GHz with two SLI GPU's from Nvidia and 500MB RAM is as well believable. As much as I would love to see that, it's not very likely and this specs are not very likely as well. If you ask me, those specs sound like someone has written down his dream specs.

Fredi

 

[PC-Engine]

Nobody knows whether it's real or not. We're just talking about the possibilties of it being achievable at a reasonable cost.

PS3 with two PPEs and 16SPEs will be a monster chip at 90nm, then you have the Blu-ray drive so of course that configuration isn't even possible at a reasonable cost.

OTOH a quad core G3 IS achievable in a reasonably sized die. Gekko is 80mm^2 at 180nm. At 90nm it would be only 40mm^2. Put 4 of them onto the same die and you'd get 160mm^2 at 90nm. After about a year when 65nm is available the chip could be made even smaller.

 

[V3]

OTOH a quad core G3 IS achievable in a reasonably sized die. Gekko is 80mm^2 at 180nm. At 90nm it would be only 40mm^2. Put 4 of them onto the same die and you'd get 160mm^2 at 90nm. After about a year when 65nm is available the chip could be made even smaller.

You know, its not too long ago that the idea of multi cores was shunt upon, now its somewhat expected ?

 

[London Geezer]

Would a 4 core G3 really be more powerful than a chip based on a new architecture (G4 or G5) but with fewer cores?

Sound like number-playing to me. Xbox2 has 3 cores? Rev will have 4!!!1! Xbox2 has a single core GPU?! Rev will have a double core one!!11!

Don't know, just doesn't sound too realistic.

 

[PC-Engine]

Would a 4 core G3 really be more powerful than a chip based on a new architecture (G4 or G5) but with fewer cores?

Sound like number-playing to me. Xbox2 has 3 cores? Rev will have 4!!!1! Xbox2 has a single core GPU?! Rev will have a double core one!!11!

Don't know, just doesn't sound too realistic.

It doesn't have to be more powerful since there's a PPU chip too. Anyway the reason why I used G3 was for simple backwards compatibility and it's smaller and runs at a lower clock. It wouldn't need to be clocked at GHz speeds which means less power and heat which is perfect for a small case. The there's the Evolution rumors which indicate a portable GCN like chipset. Makes sense to use G3s then shrink them for a portable not to mention that it's a lot cheaper and easier and faster to take an existing chip and add more cores to it than building a multicore chip based on new cores.

 

[McFly]

OTOH a quad core G3 IS achievable in a reasonably sized die. Gekko is 80mm^2 at 180nm. At 90nm it would be only 40mm^2. Put 4 of them onto the same die and you'd get 160mm^2 at 90nm. After about a year when 65nm is available the chip could be made even smaller.

Since when are we talking about a 4 core G3? The quoted post talks about G5 based cores. Two cores at the mentioned frequency currently in the G5's needs a liquid cooling system as big as a Gamecube. Now in a year, do you seriously believe that two times as many cores at that frequency and two GPU's and one PU and one sound processor magicaly could be used with a cheap and small enough cooling system in a gameconsole? I don't think so.

Fredi

 

[PC-Engine]

OTOH a quad core G3 IS achievable in a reasonably sized die. Gekko is 80mm^2 at 180nm. At 90nm it would be only 40mm^2. Put 4 of them onto the same die and you'd get 160mm^2 at 90nm. After about a year when 65nm is available the chip could be made even smaller.

Since when are we talking about a 4 core G3? The quoted post talks about G5 based cores. Two cores at the mentioned frequency currently in the G5's needs a liquid cooling system as big as a Gamecube. Now in a year, do you seriously believe that two times as many cores at that frequency and two GPU's and one PU and one sound processor magicaly could be used with a cheap and small enough cooling system in a gameconsole? I don't think so.

Fredi

That's why I specifically said it would make more sense to use 4 G3 cores for reasons I posted earlier. I'm not interestind in arguing whether or not the rumor as stated is real, just coming up with a similar achievable and yet more likely example. It's just speculation ok?

 

[McFly]

It's just speculation ok?

Are'nt we all?

A multicore G3 would IMHO make no sense. You could use a single G5 to get about the same power without the extra hassle to write multi-core code.

Fredi

 

[PC-Engine]

It's just speculation ok?

Are'nt we all?

A multicore G3 would IMHO make no sense. You could use a single G5 to get about the same power without the extra hassle to write multi-core code.

Fredi

What's the performance of a single G5 and at what clock speeds? What's the die size and power requirements? Multicore is the future. You're not going to be able to scale clock speeds indefinitely so it's better to start now than later. Even ARM chips are going multicore instead of a single more powerful chip.

 

[McFly]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

 

[PC-Engine]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

I also sound like Intel.

The quad G3 core I've come up with would operata at 970MHz.

 

[McFly]

About G5, G3 speeds, I can't find the single precission performance of a G5 right now, but the dp performance is 8GFlops:

Each G5 has 2 double precision FPUs. Each unit can complete 1 fused multiply add operation per cycle. This is the most common op in numerical computations. Thus, each processor can deliver 2 DP unites * 2 flops/cycle = 8GFlops. That's more than one Cray X1 Node. In a desktop.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0112083/G5cluster.html

Can't find numbers for the G3 right now, but I think they are somewhere around 1Gflops single precision, but don't quote me on it.

Fredi

 

[DuckThor Evil]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

I also sound like Intel.

The quad G3 core I've come up with would operata at 970MHz.

Except that Intel is not making it's dual core processors from ancient technology like you would.

 

[Kolgar]

I think it's genuine. Genuine BOOLSHEET!

Isn't Nintendo aiming for niche markets these days? I see them embracing their role as a maker of kids' toys. Those specs don't point to a kids' toy, and besides, a machine like that would never hit $199 (or at most $249), which I think Nintendo may want to launch at, as they did with GC.

It's just a better price point for them, and helps avoid direct comparisons to their competition.

 

[PC-Engine]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

I also sound like Intel.

The quad G3 core I've come up with would operata at 970MHz.

Except that Intel is not making it's dual core processors from ancient technology like you would.

Intel has different goals.

a machine like that would never hit $199 (or at most $249), which I think Nintendo may want to launch at, as they did with GC.

There's no reason why Nintendo wouldn't be able to sell Revolution at a higher than $200 pricepoint. DS is more expensive than GBA and N64 was $250.

 

[London Geezer]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

I also sound like Intel.

The quad G3 core I've come up with would operata at 970MHz.

Except that Intel is not making it's dual core processors from ancient technology like you would.

Intel has different goals.

MS Word accelleration?

 

[PC-Engine]

You start to sound like Kutaragi five years ago.

Fredi

I also sound like Intel.

The quad G3 core I've come up with would operata at 970MHz.

Except that Intel is not making it's dual core processors from ancient technology like you would.

Intel has different goals.

MS Word accelleration?

No MS Word spellchecker acceleration.

Decompressing HD DVD?

Ok I found it, seems it can do 2 GFLOPS so 4 cores at 970MHz = 16GFLOPS. Not bad with a 64 GFLOPS PPU for physics.

 

[Kolgar]

a machine like that would never hit $199 (or at most $249), which I think Nintendo may want to launch at, as they did with GC.

There's no reason why Nintendo wouldn't be able to sell Revolution at a higher than $200 pricepoint. DS is more expensive than GBA and N64 was $250.

Sure, Nintendo could launch at any price they like. It just seems to me that they're trying to differentiate themselves from MS and Sony's offerings, and the GC launch showed a trend toward a younger audience. It launched at $199, it was purple with a handle, and its big game featured Luigi sucking up ghosts with a vacuum cleaner!

OK, maybe if Microsoft and Sony show a willingness to stupidly top that $299 magic price point, Nintendo will feel justified pricing Revolution at $249 - I just can't see them going $299 at this point, but then, I wish I knew more about the hardware.

 

[Urian]

For your information.

PowerPC 750FX and MPC7400(G4 is a G3+VMX): 7-Stage Pipeline, 1 Integer Unit (3 Simple+1 Complex), 1 double precisión FPU and an VMX (MPC7400 y MPC7450 only).

PowerPC 970: 16-Stage Pipeline, 2 Integer Unit, 2 FPU and an VMX.