Xabre based video cards

[martrox]

Amazing pricing, definately. And, I really don't think you can go wrong with any of them. If you discount AA & AF, there's not much difference between any of these cards and the higher priced spread! They will all run games at 1024X768 at excellent speed.

BTW, I run my TI200's & 1 of my GF3's with no AA, no AF, not O/C'd - the TI200's are in my servers(Win2K & Lunix) and the GF3 is in a Video computer - use it to do my photo & DV stuff only.
My other GF3 is O/C to 240/540 and runs 4Xs AA & 4AF - Wife's second computer - she multitasks - even while gaming!
And the primary computers both use TI4600(O/C to 315/740) running at 4Xs AA & 8 AF.
All three gaming computers run a bit (well, accually really)slow, but we are primarily RGP players, so it's ok. BUT, if I play a FPS, gotta turn off the AA & AF....

Geez, we do have excellent pricing over here.......and I have to agree IF they all cost about the same, go for the TI4200.......unless you have a friend in the good ol USA......

The only card out there which has really usable AA & AF in everything id the 9700........AND I will have those to replace the TI4600's when Compusa gets them in.....next week (crosses fingers)!

 

[Randell]

Amazing pricing, definately. And, I really don't think you can go wrong with any of them. If you discount AA & AF, there's not much difference between any of these cards and the higher priced spread! They will all run games at 1024X768 at excellent speed.

amen to that.

Whcih is why when somebody asks what card to get, I suggest all of the cards discussed above depending on what deal you can get but counter whenever somebody says just get a Gf3/4 with well you should consider the Radeons.

I try not to be biased, but if you are neutral and counter fanboyism on recommendations you appear biased

 

[martrox]

Randall, I agree. In fact, I really think some "fanbois" here are accually not, but just appear to be due to getting beat on by the oppisition......whomever that may be

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I try not to be biased, but if you are neutral and counter fanboyism on recommendations you appear biased

Right...When someone's *cough* Chalnoth *cough* recommendation is merely

"Personally, I'd suggest getting some nVidia graphics card."

And then lists and spins only the "pros" of nVidia hardware without also listing the "pros" of competing hardware, it screams for a "counter".

In any case, most of the sane people around here are giving sane advice:

Ti-200 and 9000 are about a wash, each with pros and cons in the well under $100 price range. My addition: get the card that runs the games YOU play, at the setting you prefer, the best.

For a little extra cash, the 8500 is probably the best deal at the $100 price tag.

For even a little more cash the 4200 is a good deal too. But at this point ($120 or so), we're pretty much in a different price bracket than the original sub $100 target.

 

[KimB]

And then lists and spins only the "pros" of nVidia hardware without also listing the "pros" of competing hardware, it screams for a "counter".

Which is precisely why I don't feel guilty about failing to lay out everything I know.

And btw, I the TV-out black border issue was fixed on my GeForce4...I wasn't aware whether or not it was fixed for GeForce3 products...also, the new "NVkeystone" allows for resizing the display in any way you want. You can even distort it so that, say, a projector that displays at an angle still displays correctly.

 

[Randell]

to be fair to Chalnoth it was specified there was a problem with Radeons and WWIIO in that instance.

The 'discussion' then revolved around Gf3 v 9000Pro generally...

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Which is precisely why I don't feel guilty about failing to lay out everything I know.

For the benefit of this board, you should feel guilty.

Because every time you only blatantly lay out "one side" of the story, you encite the type of repeated "back and forth", "me vs. you" type of thread to follow.

Of course, no one is expected to tell "everything they know." But when someone is asking for advice, only telling "one side of the story" is just begging for a one sided response, which is the beginnings of the dreaded nonsense which typically follows.

 

[OpenGL guy]

The R9000 is "only" DX8 complaint

It's DX8.1 compliant, just like the 8500.

 

[KimB]

For the benefit of this board, you should feel guilty.

Joe, do you feel that you always lay out both sides of the story adequately?

I have yet to see somebody who does.

 

[martrox]

Well, I think I'm pretty objective about all this crap......

 

[KimB]

I don't think so in the least, martrox. Here's what I consider as an example of your anti-nVidia bias:

In fact, there is some question wether you will even be able to buy an nVidia DX9 compliant card BEFORE next spring!

Posted here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38840#38840

There shouldn't be any question as to whether nVidia's NV30 will be available before the Spring (before Spring=before late March). The only question is availability. Most people seem to think that high-volume availability should be here by January.

Ack, brain fart on Spring dates, corrected.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Joe, do you feel that you always lay out both sides of the story adequately?

In response to questions about purchases for real world use? Absolutely. But feel free to find a case where I haven't.

In reponse to someone who lays out only one side? No. Then I tend to proportionally argue the other side to balance it. However, in doing so I still almost always acknlowedge valid points of my "opponents" view point.

 

[OpenGL guy]

I don't think so in the least, martrox. Here's what I consider as an example of your anti-nVidia bias:

In fact, there is some question wether you will even be able to buy an nVidia DX9 compliant card BEFORE next spring!

There shouldn't be any question as to whether nVidia's NV30 will be available before the Spring (before Spring=before late March). The only question is availability. Most people seem to think that high-volume availability should be here by January.

How does what you posted contradict your quote from martrox?

some question wether you will even be able to buy

The only question is availability. Most people seem to think...

Everything I've quoted is opinion. No one's opinion is any more valid than any other in light of a lack of factual information.

 

[KimB]

I'm just trying to say that the thought that nVidia won't be able to deliver the NV30 in high-volume by the end of Winter (which means late March) is steeped in bias. I'm not trying to say that I'm not biased...I'm just trying to say that I don't know of anybody who isn't. To say you aren't is self-delusional at best, hypocritical at worst.

 

[Nagorak]

I don't think so in the least, martrox. Here's what I consider as an example of your anti-nVidia bias:

In fact, there is some question wether you will even be able to buy an nVidia DX9 compliant card BEFORE next spring!

Posted here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38840#38840

There shouldn't be any question as to whether nVidia's NV30 will be available before the Spring (before Spring=before late March). The only question is availability. Most people seem to think that high-volume availability should be here by January.

Ack, brain fart on Spring dates, corrected.

I disagree completely, there is some question as to whether it will be available before next Spring. It really depends when you consider Spring to begin (just like Fall supposedly doesn't end until Dec. 20th). When you think of Winter you're more or less referring to Q4, regardless of the fact January and February are technically Winter. So Spring is often also analagous to Q1, in which case his comment is very valid and not biased at all. It's possible his comment is biased, but it's also (and more likely IMO) that it's just due to a misuderstanding due to the use of fairly vague terms (I mean, no one seems to agree when any of these seasons start and end ).

 

[martrox]

Chalnoth, I in no way said that nVidia wouldn't have the NV30 out by spring, just that there is a question as to when it will be out, period. You really need to get a life, guy. You are a typical Fanboi....IF someone doesn't totally agree with you, then they muct not be objective..... I own 8 nVidia cards, how many do you own? I bought them on their value, not some BS that nVidia spouted. At the time they were the best thing available, period. That doesn't mean, by implication, that nVidia cards will ALWAYS be the best......

I can accually say that right now, I feel that what ATI is offering is a superior product, and I will buy it. That also doesn't mean that ATI will always have the best product. IF NV30 comes out and is a good deal better than the 9700, I will buy it, period!

How much more friggin objective can you be? Let me just see you admit, once, that ATI is building a superior product NOW. The 9700 is superior to the TI4600.....NOW! The 9000 series is better than the GF4MX series....NOW! And don't try and blow smoke up my butt with crap like well......just wait til.......because a DX9 card in the hand is worth a dozen NV30's that DO NOT EXIST!

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm just trying to say that the thought that nVidia won't be able to deliver the NV30 in high-volume by the end of Winter (which means late March) is steeped in bias.

IMO, that's a biased statement.

Not too long ago, someone around here thought I was so "anti-PowerVR" biased, that they bet their private parts that PowerVR Series 4 would ship by September. He thought I was absolutely nuts to suggest it wouldn't possibly happen.

To suggest that nVidia might not be able to ship NV30 in volume by "the end of winter" certainly does not mean one is steeped in bias. All it means is that one may think that with all that's gone "wrong" with NV30 to date, latest runor having it "just" been taped out, how hard of a stretch is it to imagine other problems might delay it a few months more?

Does it take someone "steeped in bias" to have such an opinion?

Not.

Now, my own personal speculation is that nVidia will get the NV30 in some form shipping in volume during Q1. However, it certainly would not surprise me in the least if nVidia ends up pushing NV30 out to their typical spring launch time frame. Which would mean first shipments in late march, and volume around May.

 

[KimB]

IMO, that's a biased statement.

All official statements that we've seen from nVidia point to a release before Christmas. Anything else is speculation, and if you take speculation over official statements, then you obviously don't trust those official statements. In other words, you are biased against that company/person.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

All official statements that we've seen from nVidia point to a release before Christmas. Anything else is speculation, and if you take speculation over official statements, then you obviously don't trust those official statements. In other words, you are biased against that company/person.

Hogwash.

I could just as well argue that anyone who takes CEO statements as anything but the most optimistic scenario, is biased toward that company / person.

For example, we know for a fact that the nVidia CEO last spring claimed that the NV30 would launch this August. Obviously, that didn't happen. And who the hell knows what the deal is with NV30 tape-out, given two seemingly contradictory CEO "official" statements on it.

And this means we must be biased if we don't assume what the CEO says is "the most likely" scenario?

In other words, particularly given the history of the reliability of "official" information on the NV30 (what litte official information there actually is btw), it seems to me that you are biased toward that company if you believe current "official" information to be a predictable measure of the future.

So you are right, in that if we take speculation over "official" comments, it's because we don't trust those comments. However, if there is REASON to not trust those comments, one can hardly be labeled as "anti" anything.

 

[Randell]

Well I recall nVidia saying they would be first with a DX9 product as well, so you cant always beleive everything a company says, even though they beleive it themselves when they say it.