X360 Ditching Backwards Compatibility
- Thread starter rounin
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In the X360 uncloaked book, their was basically a huge fight within MS over backward compatibility. They proceeded, after they switched hardware vendors, on the assumption of no BC. Then marketing began to push hard for it later, which ticked Allard off because they only made a big deal of it AFTER the hardware switch. Almost like they just wanted a fight or something.
They also had studies that showed very few people used BC on PS2, and so on. The idea also was that casual gamers liked the idea of bc more than hardcore, yet the hardcore were the early adaptors, and as the system gained library bc became less relevant anyway. So by the time the casuals were buying it didn't matter.
So I guess it doesn't surprise me. They were never that keen on it. It was marketing that pushed it on them. Allard never was big on it.
I agree with them I think it is no big deal. I only care about one title for BC, SF2 anniversary edition. And it looks like Sf2 will hit XBLA before that, so after that title is out I wont care at all.
They also had studies that showed very few people used BC on PS2, and so on. The idea also was that casual gamers liked the idea of bc more than hardcore, yet the hardcore were the early adaptors, and as the system gained library bc became less relevant anyway. So by the time the casuals were buying it didn't matter.
So I guess it doesn't surprise me. They were never that keen on it. It was marketing that pushed it on them. Allard never was big on it.
I agree with them I think it is no big deal. I only care about one title for BC, SF2 anniversary edition. And it looks like Sf2 will hit XBLA before that, so after that title is out I wont care at all.
Scuzzlebutt
Newcomer
It was a big selling point for me. I loved the idea of buying all the A++ titles atr $15 while I wait (and still wait) for good 360 games. Then I found out how broken it was and is. Way to overpromise and under deliver again MS.
I tried SC:CT a few weeks back with the BC update. It would never load, it either crashed on the loading sceen or crashed on the update. At least SP worked before the BC update.
I tried SC:CT a few weeks back with the BC update. It would never load, it either crashed on the loading sceen or crashed on the update. At least SP worked before the BC update.
sonyps35 said:
I thought hardcore gamers are the ones that never get tired of old but excellent classic games.
I dont know about you but I still love playing Silent Hill(which is still probably the most atmospheric despite the outdated graphics), Metal Gear Solid, Omega Boost, Tobal2, Wipeout, Ridge Racer Type4, Ace Combat3, Tomb Raider1(for me its still the best), Vagrant Story etc etc and I am sure many feel the same for many old games.
Some games never feel old no matter how old they get.
Thats why many of us if not most of us have SNES, NES, Genesis and Master System emulators and roms on their PCs.
For 360 it was a waste of time because relatively to past and present consoles XBOX didnt have as many classics, and also it was a pain in the ass to even care since it had issues with many games and most of them werent even playable until the update was available.
Please don't turn this into a meaningless fight.
I agree that for XBox 360, BC is not that important since most of the best-selling Xbox 1 games can already be played on XB360. Given the amount of resources they have to put it to make other old games work on XB360, it's not worth it.
However It does not mean that BC in general is irrelevant.
BC can be important for publishers because they can sell old games online to new userbase. So the entire catalog is still accessible (e.g., All PS2 games) even if you can't find them on the shelves anymore. Google for "Long Tail Economy" for an indication of selling to extremely niche segments (e.g., new hardcore MGS fans, new hardcore FF fans, ...) in a cost effective manner.
It also helps to alleviate any launch game draught.
MS is free to revise their position again when the third Xbox is launched. BC is a good thing if the cost of implementation is reasonable.
I agree that for XBox 360, BC is not that important since most of the best-selling Xbox 1 games can already be played on XB360. Given the amount of resources they have to put it to make other old games work on XB360, it's not worth it.
However It does not mean that BC in general is irrelevant.
BC can be important for publishers because they can sell old games online to new userbase. So the entire catalog is still accessible (e.g., All PS2 games) even if you can't find them on the shelves anymore. Google for "Long Tail Economy" for an indication of selling to extremely niche segments (e.g., new hardcore MGS fans, new hardcore FF fans, ...) in a cost effective manner.
It also helps to alleviate any launch game draught.
MS is free to revise their position again when the third Xbox is launched. BC is a good thing if the cost of implementation is reasonable.
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That is just great that "nobody is conserned anymore" even though they can't even fix anoying problems they even admit to having with "top selling" games like Halo 2 and Fable. Not to mention a whole host of other problems that aren't listed on that page and a decent list of other games that sold very well for the orignal Xbox but don't work on the 360 at all.
Hell, they haven't even bothered fix the emulator's absurdly bright output compared to everything running in HD over component. So those of use who do like to use our 360s to play Xbox games in HD have to continually adjust the brigeness settings on the display to mantain proper image quality, but obviously nobody (at MS) is conserned about any of that anymore.
Hell, they haven't even bothered fix the emulator's absurdly bright output compared to everything running in HD over component. So those of use who do like to use our 360s to play Xbox games in HD have to continually adjust the brigeness settings on the display to mantain proper image quality, but obviously nobody (at MS) is conserned about any of that anymore.
Well then there are a number of us public who are rather dissapointed with being referred to as nobodies. I was really dissapointed when I went to play some Halo 2 co-op the other day and framerate chopped like mad the sound cut in and out durring heavy action, and so was the friend I was trying to play with who has been considering getting a 360.
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I think the developers of late XBox 1 games must have felt slightly shafted. My keyword here is Black.Sis said:
Stuff like that is a valid reason for proper BC as well. Everyone loves to avoid pissing off their business partners. Meanwhile, somewhere else, PS2 games are still being developed. I've even seen a GameCube announcement or two this year
Fundamentally, software BC just can't work, not until your target machine has several orders of magnitude more oomph than the thing you're trying to emulate. I'd like to say "'told you so" but I'm not sure I said anything back when ...
Yes, it was a bit naive to believe and to expect it to work properly, but that doesn't give anyone the right to ridicule the people who just want to have working BC for their games. Not everyone is "still on the fence", this is not theoretical whinery and angst anymore. The people actually experiencing the problems have already bought the console and the games.
"Backwards compatibility" is a well-understood capability for a game console, as there's precedence. If you claim to have it, the public will have certain expectations.
Black acutally runs very well on the 360, a bit late in the comming but I'm pleased with the results all the same.zeckensack said:
Back when they anounced I actually took their claims of a growning list of top selling games that they would contenue to work on and update over the internent, I took this to mean that they would be indvidually reworking executables and other code as needed. Granted, that would be a huge undertaking; but considering the troubles of software emulation and espsially after Bungie orignal missreported that the Halo games would be rendered at 720p, that seemed to me the only reasonable way to live up to those promises.zeckensack said:
Yeah, one month is decent, but it's still late in my book as that is month after I beat the game and it sucks having to re-unlock stuff on the 360 that I already have available on my orignal Xbox save.
I sugguest renting Black game unless you get a good deal on it, it's a short playthough and the unskippable FMV based story really sucks. Gameplay is a quality though so I do recomend playing it.
I sugguest renting Black game unless you get a good deal on it, it's a short playthough and the unskippable FMV based story really sucks. Gameplay is a quality though so I do recomend playing it.
I'm rather curious about their studies... From what I know, backwards compatibility got a fairly significant amount of usage (at least in Japan), within the first 2 years. I don't know what percentage (the survey data I've seen only covers a subset of the customer base), but a lot of folks used their old Playstations as trade-in credit on PS2s, and we (the Square days) as well as SCEI were still pushing a fair number of PSOne titles during the PS2 launch. The situation is still the same this time around as well, Sony still expects a fair number of PS2 titles to ship by the end of this year thru next summer, so backwards compatiblity is still a significant factor.
As for Microsoft, they seemed rather anxious to kill off production and scale back support for the Xbox as soon as the 360 shipped. The reality is that Xbox titles will still be on shelves for quite a while, and there will be customers (both casual and enthusiast) who will want to buy the older titles (either because of random/obtuse curiousity, or becuase of cost), so backwards compatiblity IMO is not only a good thing, but it's also almost becoming downright necessary.
Evidently (according to X360 Uncloaked) they mined data from PS2 owners and found that the number of people who actually ended up using BC was negligible.archie4oz said:
Edit:
although I would say that the longer a system is out, the more negligible the number probably is. The X360 has only been out now for 6 mos so I'd guess until Holiday of 07 BC is more valuable for to more people than say next year when a plethora of 360 titles come out that surpass Xbox games. There will also be 1st year 360 games that will be "Platinum hits" or discounted or used available.
and 200-300 of the top selling titles of 800 is not too bad either IMO.
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