WTF is a Generation? *PissOff from Scorpio Thread*

[goonergaz]

I did and the only thing they said was a 980ti they didn't give details of the rest of the machine and they didn't state they were using PhysX on the gpu. It also would make little sense for them to use a propritery standard that doesn't exist in their consoles. So what is the cpu ? A i3 dual core , i5 , i7 , 8 core i7 ? They don't say

But again, we know some things;

980ti roughly equals Scorpio - the PC needed cloud
XBO needed the cloud (and that might not have been at 1080p)
Scorpio is roughly 4x or 5x XBO

I think it's a safe bet that Scorpio won't be doing Crackdown 3 at 4k offline.

 

[eastmen]

But again, we know some things;

980ti roughly equals Scorpio - the PC needed cloud
XBO needed the cloud (and that might not have been at 1080p)
Scorpio is roughly 4x or 5x XBO

I think it's a safe bet that Scorpio won't be doing Crackdown 3 at 4k offline.

Again what cpu was used for the physics . Its a demo showing destruction that uses physics. If the cpu is lacking it doesn't matter what gpu you have. The cpu would be the weak point at that part.

So again what are the specs ? Also the 980 is quite old and performs poorly in dx 12 esp at the point at that demo

 

[Cyan]

Of course it's a generational leap...PC gaming is probably dead now considering how much of a leap it is.

Scorpions everywhere

 

[Scott_Arm]

This thread is dicks now. Lets have a huge semantic argument about what "console generation" means. That'll be useful.

 

[BadTB25]

This thread is dicks now. Lets have a huge semantic argument about what "console generation" means. That'll be useful.

Some people can't help themselves

 

[MrFox]

This thread is growing up into a beautiful unique snowflake.

 

[AlNom]

Is this Generation X

 

[shredenvain]

Microsoft earlier said a 30% power difference is not going to be noticeable and many Xbox fans agreed. Now MS is saying you will notice a 30% power difference..

If a 30% difference means a generational leap then it should have meant so as well in 2013, would you not agree?

You cant just go by a percentage. 30% of 1000 is completely different than 30% of 10.

The difference between Xbox one and ps4 is around half a teraflop. The Scorpio to ps4pro difference is 2 plus teraflops in GPU ALU alone.

 

[Nesh]

See PC for a better explanation. They can have exclusive features and/or better performance on Scorpio but still allow the games to run on older hardware.

Tommy McClain

PCs are a a different story. An older PC might run some games ok, some not at all and some like crap. Here we have two platforms, where XB1 should be able to play all games well enough. Also MS gave the impression originally that Scorpio and One will be having the same games, no exclusive games. IIRC they also originally suggested that to get the advantage you will need a 4K TV and without 4K you wouldnt understand much of a difference. If Scorpio is a generational leap, but all games target to run on XB1, devs will be presented with limitations in their game design. They wont be able to think what they can achieve "now" that they couldnt before except in terms of amount of detail, resolution and framerate that can be scaled back for XB1. Its a generational leap in hardware that will be held back to support XB1.

 

[AzBat]

So? I think some are lacking vision here. Basically you will get 2 SKUs in 1 box/disc/EXE. At first I can see that you will get games were the only differences are the XB1 version runs at a lower resolution/lower fidelity. I think as time goes you could see effectively 2 different games with different logic, graphics, etc, but you only pay for one of them. Basically the same as Xbox Play Anywhere. I also believe that the XB1 requirement has an expiration date. Devs will no longer be required to make XB1 games once the Scorpio 2 comes out. Scorpio 1 will take its place.

Tommy McClain

 

[ProspectorPete]

You cant just go by a percentage. 30% of 1000 is completely different than 30% of 10.

The difference between Xbox one and ps4 is around half a teraflop. The Scorpio to ps4pro difference is 2 plus teraflops in GPU ALU alone.

First: it's not 2+ TF, but rather 1.8TF. Second: The CPU is most probably a 2.5GHz jaguar, at best. At this point even 2.1GHz is possible. In which case the GPU is bottlenecked by the CPU. So the 30% GPU performance would be more like 10-20% in real world situations. PS4 pro 1800p cb to 4K with Xbox Scorpio 2160p cb.
Or PS4 Pro 2160p cb with extra effects, and Xbox Scorpio 2160p native 4K with slightly less effects.

Scorpio will be the same generation as PS4 pro, but a year late.

A generation could be defined as which CPU a console uses, if the amount of cores stays the same. (to avoid gamecube, wii, wii u being the same generation)

 

[AzBat]

We can all make our own definitions. Go knock yourself out, but I doubt many will care.

Tommy McClain

 

[ProspectorPete]

I think Scorpio using the same CPU as the 2013 Xbox One, but with a higher clock would make it the same generation.
The CPU will bottleneck the whole system anyways:

I can see people fantasising about Scorpio having 2 or 3 times the numbers of NPCs in the next Assassins Creed but the reality is it will be the exact same gameplay experience, same number of NPCs, same 30fps lock. In conclusion: the same game. But instead of 1600*900p it is now rendering at 3840 × 2160 with better anisotropic filtering. That does not count as a new generation.

Scorpio 2 and PS5 will use a low power 8 or 16 core Zen CPU. Now, the Assassins Creed version on those systems will actually have more NPCs, destructible environments, cloth physics on all characters, 60FPS, and so on. That would be the generational increase. The AC game after that won't be released on Jaguar CPUs, because those will be last-gen.

 

[BRiT]

First: it's not 2+ TF, but rather 1.8TF.

AT LEAST. It could easily be 2+ TF. But don't let reality get in the way of your narrative.

 

[Cyan]

Is this Generation X

Generations are probably over.

Iterations are actually the new hotness.

 

[Cyan]

We can all make our own definitions. Go knock yourself out, but I doubt many will care.

Tommy McClain

Definitions wise I think Scorpio is a next generation full-fledged console while this generation is going to be all about forward compatibility Xbox One.

 

[bunge]

I just bought an Atari Lynx.

 

[Niebotskick]

But again, we know some things;

980ti roughly equals Scorpio

This is not true. AMD GFLOPS != Nvidia GFLOPS. According to AMD's numbers, the R9 390X is a 6 TFLOPS card, and according to benchmarks it performs roughly like a GTX 980. The Ti version is about 25% faster.

 

[goonergaz]

This is not true. AMD GFLOPS != Nvidia GFLOPS. According to AMD's numbers, the R9 390X is a 6 TFLOPS card, and according to benchmarks it performs roughly like a GTX 980. The Ti version is about 25% faster.

We don't even know the Scorpio GPU/TF yet hence 'roughly equals'. As a statement I think it's a fair comparison...especially WRT the discussion which was 'how on earth can anyone expect Scorpio to play Crackdown 3 offline at 4k with full destruction when a PC with a 980ti needs cloud'. Eastman seems to think a magical CPU will make the difference.

 

[ProspectorPete]

Definitions wise I think Scorpio is a next generation full-fledged console while this generation is going to be all about forward compatibility Xbox One.

Would you still think that if it uses Jaguar, or do you regard PS4 Pro as a "next generation full-fledged console" as well?