Woman charged with killing fetus

[I.S.T.]

My grandfather was abusive towards my father as well. Myself, my sister, an aunt, an uncle and him wouldn't exist if my grandfather hadn't been allowed to have kids.

 

[zidane1strife]

I have heard and seen so many people say they're trying to have kids it's not funny. Also, the GM wouldn't stop with just taking out the bad things. They'd make everybody uniform. Evolution/God/who/whatever you believe in didn't intend on us manipulating ourselfs. We're born via the method we're born for a reason. It works. Otherwise, we'd be born a different way. Sure, there are defects. I have a few myself. But they make me unique. I wouldn't get rid of them completely, just minimize the effects they have on me.

Well, but what chance have yer child, against those who do? What right do you have to put your children at a significant disadvantage? Do I have a right to make a child blind, deaf, autistic, lame, etc? No, so should I be able to leave him at a significant disadvantage compared to his brethren? You know you can’t stop it, some are going to use gm, to advance the human mind so much so, that the difference between the mind of a man and that of a dog, will seem extremely tame in comparison.

And exactly what governing body do you envision overseeing who receives a right to reproduce certificate and who doesn't? Who oversees, 24/7, the environment and care of the baby for its first 16-18 years? Who determines what is the "proper" way to raise a child?

I come from an abusive childhood, something I rarely talk about and certainly won't go into details about here. Yet had your Utopian vision existed 40 years ago my father would never have been allowed to reproduce and I wouldn't have been born. Some might think, "hey, that's not such a bad idea," but I'd like to believe my family and friends feel otherwise. Good people can come from less-than-ideal backgrounds, and vice versa.

No current gov. body is apt. For such a task. One day the technology will be there to not only advance reproduction and its regulation... making sure we can’t raise a child with segregational ideas, nor can we limit the potential enhancements that society might bring due to some bias or religion... but also our political system, our political candidates and their voters, and associated machina.

Should a child be left without the ability to regenerate limbs, the spinal cord, etc. should it become available, or to have far extended lifespan, or a far superior immune system, or advance intellect, or the ability to sustain massive injuries and survive? This, I'd say, is akin to denying medical service, blood transfusion / organ transplants, antibiotics, modern medical care, surgery, etc.

My grandfather was abusive towards my father as well. Myself, my sister, an aunt, an uncle and him wouldn't exist if my grandfather hadn't been allowed to have kids.

Yes, as I’m sure right now a child that’d be born from a far worse(psychos, pedophiles, rapists, murderers, drug addicts, etc.)kind of family would not be born should we adhere to better standards. But you see, just because bad environments might not lead to undesirable members, it does not mean we should tolerate or embrace them. I’m sure there are some people whose parents might have met at a concentration camp in germany, and should those had not been allowed to exist they might not have been born... just as some who were conceived through rape, and other ill conceived methods.

You see, it does not follow, it’s a non sequitur... The ends do not always justify the means

 

[I.S.T.]

I have heard and seen so many people say they're trying to have kids it's not funny. Also, the GM wouldn't stop with just taking out the bad things. They'd make everybody uniform. Evolution/God/who/whatever you believe in didn't intend on us manipulating ourselfs. We're born via the method we're born for a reason. It works. Otherwise, we'd be born a different way. Sure, there are defects. I have a few myself. But they make me unique. I wouldn't get rid of them completely, just minimize the effects they have on me.

Well, but what chance have yer child, against those who do? What right do you have to put your children at a significant disadvantage? Do I have a right to make a child blind, deaf, autistic, lame, etc? No, so should I be able to leave him at a significant disadvantage compared to his brethren? You know you can’t stop it, some are going to use gm, to advance the human mind so much so, that the difference between the mind of a man and that of a dog, will seem extremely tame in comparison.

And exactly what governing body do you envision overseeing who receives a right to reproduce certificate and who doesn't? Who oversees, 24/7, the environment and care of the baby for its first 16-18 years? Who determines what is the "proper" way to raise a child?

I come from an abusive childhood, something I rarely talk about and certainly won't go into details about here. Yet had your Utopian vision existed 40 years ago my father would never have been allowed to reproduce and I wouldn't have been born. Some might think, "hey, that's not such a bad idea," but I'd like to believe my family and friends feel otherwise. Good people can come from less-than-ideal backgrounds, and vice versa.

No current gov. body is apt. For such a task. One day the technology will be there to not only advance reproduction and its regulation... making sure we can’t raise a child with segregational ideas, nor can we limit the potential enhancements that society might bring due to some bias or religion... but also our political system, our political candidates and their voters, and associated machina.

Should a child be left without the ability to regenerate limbs, the spinal cord, etc. should it become available, or to have far extended lifespan, or a far superior immune system, or advance intellect, or the ability to sustain massive injuries and survive? This, I'd say, is akin to denying medical service, blood transfusion / organ transplants, antibiotics, modern medical care, surgery, etc.

My grandfather was abusive towards my father as well. Myself, my sister, an aunt, an uncle and him wouldn't exist if my grandfather hadn't been allowed to have kids.

Yes, as I’m sure right now a child that’d be born from a far worse(psychos, pedophiles, rapists, murderers, drug addicts, etc.)kind of family would not be born should we adhere to better standards. But you see, just because bad environments might not lead to undesirable members, it does not mean we should tolerate or embrace them. I’m sure there are some people whose parents might have met at a concentration camp in germany, and should those had not been allowed to exist they might not have been born... just as some who were conceived through rape, and other ill conceived methods.

You see, it does not follow, it’s a non sequitur... The ends do not always justify the means

So, unless I am misunderstanding you, I have no right to be alive? And you missed my point again. All those things are good, but it wouldn't stop there. You seem to think that one day we will have a perfect government. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Nothing we humans build is perfect, simply because we aren't. Watch the news and you'll see that. You also seem to be putting the rights of one group of people at a higher level than the rest of socity. We're all supposed to have equal rights, kids that haven't even been conceived yet in your world would have more rights than we do today.

 

[zidane1strife]

"SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The woman charged in the death of one of her twins by refusing a caesarean section had previously been convicted of child endangerment in Pittsburgh nearly four years ago, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The 2000 conviction of Melissa Rowland arose from a supermarket incident in which she punched her daughter several times in the face after the toddler picked up a candy bar and began eating it, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported. Witnesses said Rowland screamed: "You ate the candy bar and now I can't buy my cigarettes."

An Allegheny County, Pa., court sentenced Rowland to five years' probation for simple assault, reckless endangerment and endangering the welfare of a child. Her daughter was turned over to a child-welfare agency.http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...call_pageid=968256289824&col=968705899037"

- Ripclawe ga

Should this be allowed to be?

So, unless I am misunderstanding you, I have no right to be alive?

You misunderstand me... if I said conception through rape is wrong and should not be allowed.... you cannot take I mean those who've come to this world through those means, should be dead, should have no right to live. Nor should the existence of said people justify rape, nor concentration camps, nor slavery, nor segregational ideas(for ex:my dad loved a member of a different religion, race, but thanks to his racism/bias I was born!!!), etc.

You also seem to be putting the rights of one group of people at a higher level than the rest of socity. We're all supposed to have equal rights, kids that haven't even been conceived yet in your world would have more rights than we do today.

No, equal rights, no right to imposition... no right to impose myself upon another.

All those things are good, but it wouldn't stop there. You seem to think that one day we will have a perfect government. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Not perfect, but better... just because we're not perfect does not mean we should not regulate... we should not have a justice system... we should not take the freedom of anyone...

Right now, children are taken away from parents who are not fit, whether you like it or not, that is the real world. But those years, and often lives, and minds lost... do not have to be, we can make a better world.

Freedom.... Rights...

One man's right, and one man's freedom, ends when another man's right and freedom begin. Children were once considered property, then more rights were given to them, and even more should be given... in china they still have too much freedom over the fate of their offspring...

Do I have the right to use my freedom to impose myself upon another, does that other not have the right to freedom from my imposition?

In order to free those who're defenseless, we must take rights from those who do not wish to give them up... In order to end slavery... the rights of the masters must be diminished... In order to give a child freedom, and hope... the rights of the parent must be diminished.

So one day, those who may desire to smoke, use a myriad of drugs, rape/sell, maim, physically and psychologically abuse, kill their offspring... will not be able to have defenseless victims before them... that 'freedom' will simply be no more.

-zidane1strife

ed

 

[John Reynolds]

I just want to know who the hell keeps impregnating this woman?

 

[Althornin]

Nothing we humans build is perfect, simply because we aren't

pffffffffft
Original sin, get real.

 

[Tahir2]

There is nothing in this entire Universe that is Perfect anyway....why would humans be different?

 

[kyleb]

I just want to know who the hell keeps impregnating this woman?

it looks like she is wearing hospital gowns. that picture was probably taken after she went through the labor and delivery, found out one of the twins died, and was arrrested for murder; i doubt anyone would look very good under those conditions. granted a picture like that given without direct explantion does a lot to manipulate public opinion in a society were superficial judgement is all the rage.

 

[Althornin]

There is nothing in this entire Universe that is Perfect anyway....why would humans be different?

From what huge font of information did you pull this conclusion?

 

[John Reynolds]

it looks like she is wearing hospital gowns. that picture was probably taken after she went through the labor and delivery, found out one of the twins died, and was arrrested for murder; i doubt anyone would look very good under those conditions. granted a picture like that given without direct explantion does a lot to manipulate public opinion in a society were superficial judgement is all the rage.

I was being facetious. But my sympathy goes right out the window for anyone who abuses a child (as she clearly did 4 years ago).

 

[Tahir2]

There is nothing in this entire Universe that is Perfect anyway....why would humans be different?

From what huge font of information did you pull this conclusion?

It all depends on your definition of Perfection.
Anyway did you notice the smiley? And the huge font of information I pulled this statement from is a source that you will probably not accept. Let us leave it at that!

 

[epicstruggle]

i always thought a black hole was perfect. anyways, I also think god(for me gods) is/are perfect, but this is for me.

later,
epic

 

[kyleb]

But my sympathy goes right out the window for anyone who abuses a child (as she clearly did 4 years ago).

i can't seem to find anything about her being guilty of abuseing a child four years ago, where did you get that from?

 

[John Reynolds]

Zstrife posted the link earlier.

The woman charged in the death of one of her twins by refusing a caesarean section had previously been convicted of child endangerment in Pittsburgh nearly four years ago, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The 2000 conviction of Melissa Rowland arose from a supermarket incident in which she punched her daughter several times in the face after the toddler picked up a candy bar and began eating it, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported. Witnesses said Rowland screamed: "You ate the candy bar and now I can't buy my cigarettes."

 

[I.S.T.]

Nothing we humans build is perfect, simply because we aren't

pffffffffft
Original sin, get real.

Original Sin has nothing to do with my statement. I got this idea from history and this Windows ME using PC.

You misunderstand me... if I said conception through rape is wrong and should not be allowed.... you cannot take I mean those who've come to this world through those means, should be dead, should have no right to live. Nor should the existence of said people justify rape, nor concentration camps, nor slavery, nor segregational ideas(for ex:my dad loved a member of a different religion, race, but thanks to his racism/bias I was born!!!), etc.

Glad to here I was wrong on that count.

Not perfect, but better... just because we're not perfect does not mean we should not regulate... we should not have a justice system... we should not take the freedom of anyone...

Hate to break it to you but if any government completely changes at this point of time, it'll get worse. We humans hit the peak of good government about 120 years ago. Slowly but surely Big Brother is coming into exestence. It's just a matter of time before all government is Totalitarian.

Right now, children are taken away from parents who are not fit, whether you like it or not, that is the real world.

I know that. I'm glad for it.

So one day, those who may desire to smoke,

Wow, just......Wow. Smokers=abusers, huh? Damn, I guess my grandfather and both of my parents are/were abusive.

For that rest of that quote of yourself you did, all I got to say is this, you're taking a good idea and going too far.

Edit: My grandfather on my mom's side, not the one on my dad's side.

 

[kyleb]

Zstrife posted the link earlier.

thanks, missed that since i started overlooking his posts after reading though his pro-Gattaca mentality arguments.

 

[zidane1strife]

Slowly but surely Big Brother is coming into exestence. It's just a matter of time before all government is Totalitarian.

... yet the power of the individual is increasing... as the instability increases, only a system that's able to preserve order more efficiently will allow us to go on.

Smokers=abusers, huh?

NO, I particularly meant smoking while pregnant... still second hand smoke, specially if it's indoor and heavy is quite harmful for the child... and might very well be considered some form of abuse.

For that rest of that quote of yourself you did, all I got to say is this, you're taking a good idea and going too far.

You might say I'm going too far, but gm must be regulated, and so too must reproduction, to ensure equal rights, and equal abilities for all. To protect those who're defenseless.... and allow for a better far more stable society.

reading though his pro-Gattaca mentality arguments

Pro-Gattaca? Gattaca as many scifi-works most likely does not truly represent what might very well be... and the difference between S Int. and our present level of intelligence might very well be....

edii

 

[kyleb]

i was not suggesting that it was an accurate repesentation of the future, just eluding to the similarty in philosophy.

 

[I.S.T.]

Slowly but surely Big Brother is coming into exestence. It's just a matter of time before all government is Totalitarian.

... yet the power of the individual is increasing... as the instability increases, only a system that's able to preserve order more efficiently will allow us to go on.

Smokers=abusers, huh?

NO, I particularly meant smoking while pregnant... still second hand smoke, specially if it's indoor and heavy is quite harmful for the child... and might very well be considered some form of abuse.

For that rest of that quote of yourself you did, all I got to say is this, you're taking a good idea and going too far.

You might say I'm going too far, but gm must be regulated, and so too must reproduction, to ensure equal rights, and equal abilities for all. To protect those who're defenseless.... and allow for a better far more stable society.

reading though his pro-Gattaca mentality arguments

Pro-Gattaca? Gattaca as many scifi-works most likely does not truly represent what might very well be... and the difference between S Int. and our present level of intelligence might very well be....

edii

My mother smoked while she was pregnant with me and my sister. We wound up fine. The birth defects I mention in another post I got from my dad. He had the same things. Their smoking hasn't hurt us in any fashion. I don't see how it's abusive.

 

[RussSchultz]

My mother smoked while she was pregnant with me and my sister. We wound up fine.

Of course, one (errr...two) makes a rule.

Ignore the scientific evidence, its unimportant.