Some things to chew on, and get off my chest

Natoma

Veteran
The events of the past few weeks in San Francisco and Massachusetts have placed a light on a topic that many people in this country either don't understand well, don't wish to discuss, or feel fervently one way or another and wish to push it to the forefront of all debates. I speak of course on gay marriages.

We've heard the debate that this is a civil rights issue, not special rights. That this is something intrinsic to all americans, nay human beings, and that gay men and women in loving relationships should be allowed to openly engage in this human activity.

We've heard the debate that this is will do nothing but defame and destroy the institution of marriage as marriage has always been between a man and a woman. That marriage is for child rearing and the continuation of the species; the bedrock of society and religion.

I recently wrote a form letter to my senators Clinton and Schumer, as well as my district congressional representative Weiner. The following is the letter as it read when I sent it to Senator Clinton:

Natoma said:
I am writing to voice my strong opposition to amending our nation's constitution to make bigotry the law of the land. I speak regarding the proposed amendment to ban gays from marrying. Never in our history have we ever discriminated against a minority group by writ of our constitution. To the opposite effect, the constitution has been used to uphold the rights of minorities.

What is now occurring in the Congress is abominable and disgraceful. I say to you Senator Clinton that this must be fought, and fought hard. I hope you will take up this fight in the Congress. This disgrace of our constitution must stop.

50 years ago it was not popular to support Interracial Marriage, and yet our constitution was never amended to block it. 50 years ago, Anti Interracial Marriage positions were defended as necessary to protect "the natural order of things." Virginia's Anti-Miscegenation Law specifically stated: "All marriages between a white person and a colored person shall be absolutely void without any decree of divorce or other legal process."

Does that sound familiar to the laws being bandied by your anti-gay co-workers? This is history repeating itself. Despite the public opposition to interracial marriage, in 1948, the California Supreme Court led the way in challenging racial discrimination in marriage and became the first state high court to declare unconstitutional a ban on interracial marriage. Now the Massachusetts Supreme Court has taken up the fight in challenging discrimination in marriage directed toward gay men and women.

Fight for what's right Senator Clinton. Fight against this amendment.

I brought up points that I've felt the pro-gay constituency that have been on television, even the lawyers, have not brought up en masse. To look at the current situation is to see a mirror of the legal problems in the 1940s and 1950s. There were those on the right who felt that marriage was between members of the same race and nothing more. That to acknowledge marriage between members of the same race as valid would be to undermine god's creation in separating the races on different continents. That it would be the end of creation and society, this abomination of man's work.

The law on the books at the time stated precisely:

Virginia Racial Integrity Act said:
If any white person intermarry with a colored person, or any colored person intermarry with a white person, he shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by confinement in the penitentiary for not lass than one nor more than five years.

One Virginia judge who ruled against the eventual claimants in the landmark supreme court case, Loving vs Virginia, stated, in concordance with the Virginia Racial Integrity Act and Virginia's main Anti-Miscegenation Law:

Judge who convicted the Lovings of Miscegenation said:
Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.

The history of our nation is riddled with instances of exclusion because some in the majority have felt that those in the minority were not worthy of the institutions and freedoms they held dear. It is my belief that if Americans are reminded of their history and how what is going on is nothing but the continuation in civil disobedience and fighting for civil rights, our cause will eventually prevail.

The supreme court in striking down the Anti-Miscegenation Laws in the landmark Loving vs Virginia 1967 court case stated:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival....

To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.

In the present day, those on the right attempt to deny this fundamental freedom, this fundamental right of marriage, on an unsupportable basis of sexual orientation because of the harm it would cause heterosexual families. That heterosexual families marry to procreate and advance our species. Unfortunately that falls apart when one looks at the fact that millions of people who get married aren't getting married to have children. They're getting married to spend the rest of their lives together. There is no statute that forbids the marriage of a man and a woman unless they proclaim that children will be the result. Nor is there a statute that claims that if a marriage has not resulted in children, it is null and void. If this were the case, we might have no right to the institution of marriage because it would be indeed just for child rearing. But of course, this is not the reality of the situation.

Returning to the legal aspect of what is occurring today in Massachusetts and San Francisco, I find it tickling in a sense that President Bush and his supporters have labeled the ruling body in Massachusetts as "activist judges," and Gavin Newsom as "law breakers." I prefer to look back upon history and take a different interpretation on this matter.

If President Bush had been President in 1967, it stands to reason that he would have called the Supreme Court of this nation's decision in Loving vs Virginia the act of "activist judges." And yet, today we do not see their decisions in Loving vs Virginia as such, but as judges upholding the rights of the minority against the tyrannical will of the majority, as writ in the constitution.

If President Bush had been President in 1955 when Rosa Parks decided she would not relinquish her seat on the bus and move to the back as the law stipulated, it stands to reason that he would have called her a "law breaker." And yet, today we do not see her actions as such, but as a woman who helped spark over a decades worth of prominent civil disobedience.

Laws across this country forbade eating establishments to serve blacks at their lunch counters. And yet blacks and whites banded together in mass civil disobedience in order to break the bonds of the sacrosanct laws passed by the majority. What Gavin Newsom is doing in San Francisco, what Victoria Dunlap did in New Mexico, what Mayor Richard Daley is doing in Chicago, and other individuals around this great nation of ours are doing, is civil disobedience in order to effect change. Those that spit upon them as law breakers would do well to remember how change has been enacted in our nation through the act of civil disobedience, and remember that this is in fact a historically accepted and legitimate maneuver.

Why did I have the urge to write this? Yesterday, I found out that a small town in upstate New York by the name of New Paltz, 75 miles north of New York City to be exact, will begin issuing marriage licenses to gay men and women, courtesy of Mayor Jason West. When will this occur? Today, Friday, February 27th, 2004.

My boyfriend edgar and I have been in a committed relationship for over 3 years now. We met in October 2000 by a random occurrence and began our romantic relationship with one another on November 28th, 2000. In late December 2000, we purchased committment rings (gold with a centered platinum band) with the inscription "Edgar & Malik Together Forever Always." We moved in together on June 30th, 2001, and have been living together since then. We have had our relational ups and downs during this time, as all do. Yet we have done nothing but grow stronger and even more committed to one another.

Yesterday I jubilantly called Edgar on his cellphone and informed him of the news regarding New Paltz. He was busy getting his new cellphone and cellphone plan from Sprint, so he kind of brushed me off. I was understandably rather hurt by this at the time considering what it meant for us as a couple, but I figured that we'd talk about it when he got home.

About 45 minutes later, the doorbell rang and who should I find on one knee, with a single red rose and a box of chocolates?

Of course, I said Yes to the eternal question.

To say that we feel a renewed and deeper committment to one another after taking another small step toward our goal of life long recognized love for one another is an understatement. To those that would take marriage for granted, especially heterosexuals such as Britney Spears, Elizabeth Taylor, and the 50% of heterosexual marriages that fail in this nation year after year after year, I say to you, take a step back, and really understand what it is that you are doing. What it is that you are saying to one another. What it is that you are promising to one another.

Marriage is a sacred institution. But it is only as sacred as the people who enter into it make it. To that end, I can find no better official outlet to express my devotion to Edgar, and his devotion to me.

We will be married, and I for one look forward to that day with great anticipation and respect. 50 years from now, this entire fight will be as antiquated as the fight for interracial marriage seems now.

Long live this great country of ours.
 
Bah . Who cares . ALl you do is whine . Whine whine whine and it doesn't get better with age .


Just go to new york. Call me up and I will come and be a witness and take pics and you and mister edgar can be man and wife .
 
CONGRATULATIONS NATOMA!!!!

So when is the happy date? Where? Where's the honeymoon gonna be?!? (Sorry, domestic stuff I like...it's kind of my job. ;) )
 
jvd said:
Bah . Who cares . ALl you do is whine . Whine whine whine and it doesn't get better with age .

Uh, and what exactly is it YOU are doing then?
Adding an insightful opinion, perhaps? :rolleyes:

You might not like it, but the question of gay marriages is an important issue all the same. If you don't want to discuss it, you don't have to, just don't piss on the thread whatever you do.
 
Guden Oden said:
You might not like it, but the question of gay marriages is an important issue all the same.
The thing that miffs me off is it SHOULDN'T be an issue, it should be a bloody given!

How in the hell are you supposed to legislate love? More importantly, why?

My best wishes to you and yours Natoma, don't let the naysayers get ya down...they're wrong. :)
 
I honestly don't think any government should put such strict rules on marriage. I can understand if it is to prevent one man or woman from marrying multiple partners or even "within the family." Other than that, there shouldn't be such strict rules and/or policies when it comes to marriage. It should remain within the religion and/or an institution. If the religions and/or institutions find that it is ok for same sex couple to marry then the government should recognize that for what it is: marriage.

Congratulations Natoma, may you have many golden years with your significant other.
 
We haven't set a date. Actually we don't really know what's going to happen right now. We just have an "idea". But that's where big things start. :)

As for a response from Clinton, Schumer, or Weiner, the answer is no. I haven't received any response. I probably won't either, but that's ok. I gave my voice to my representatives, and I intend on writing articles for publication if I can.

It's an exhilirating feeling to say the least. :)
 
Don't worry John. I'll be sure to send you your own autographed copy for hanging on your wall. You'll be the only one. Don't worry. :)
 
Hey, it looks like you won't have to drive too far now to get it done. This movement is beginning to surge, and I don't see how even if Bush gets his constitutional amemndment through that its going to stop this.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ap/20040227/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage_new_york

Mayor of N.Y. Town Marries Gay Couples

By MICHAEL HILL, Associated Press Writer

NEW PALTZ, N.Y. - Up to a dozen gay couples began exchanging wedding vows on the steps of village hall Friday in a spirited ceremony that opened another front on the growing national debate over gay marriage.

Officiating was Jason West, the 26-year-old Green Party mayor in this village 75 miles north of New York City, who joined Gavin Newsom of San Francisco as the country's only mayors to marry same-sex couples.

"What we're witnessing in America today is the flowering of the largest civil rights movement the country's had in a generation," West said.

Billiam van Roestenberg, 38, and Jeffrey McGowan, 39, were the first to wed to the cheers of the crowd. Wearing suits, they held hands and carried flowers.

"I feel happy and joyful and peaceful," van Roestenberg said. "A little bit of peace has finally come in. I feel proud to be an American."

"Now I'm normal and equal like every one else," he said.

More than 100 people, mostly supporters of gay marriage, turned out on the green across from village hall, outnumbering family and friends of the couples there to marry. A few scattered protesters carried signs opposing gay marriage.

Jay Blotcher of High Falls, N.Y., said that while West could only give him a certificate and not a marriage license, it was still important to go through the ceremony.

"We have to show people who we are," he said. "We've been badmouthed by religious zealots. We've been deprived by President Bush (news - web sites) and we have to show people that we're your friends, neighbors and family."

One protester stood outside the hall with a sign that read, in part, "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."

"It's against nature," Angelo Da'Quaro said. "It's against religion, it's against all of that."

The ceremonies came a day after the state Health Department said New York's domestic relations law does not allow marriage licenses for same-sex couples. It said a clerk issuing such a license or anyone solemnizing such a marriage would be violating state law.

West and some legal experts said they read the law differently.

"For a marriage to be legal in this state all that's required is for it to be properly solemnized by someone with authority to do so," West told the CNN cable network early Friday. "I'm fully able to do that."

Vincent Bonventre, a professor at Albany Law School, said nothing in New York law explicitly prohibits same-sex weddings, but that the framers "clearly were contemplating opposite-sex marriages."

Discussion of gay marriage heated up this month after the top Massachusetts court ruled that anything less than full-fledged marriage for gays there would be unconstitutional. Since then, San Francisco officials have performed more than 3,400 same-sex marriages and have challenged their state law barring such unions. Earlier this week, President Bush endorsed a movement to amend the Constitution to ban the practice.

A bill in the New York Legislature would ban same-sex marriages. Similar bills have died without action in the past. At least 34 states have enacted so-called defense of marriage laws.

On the Net:

http://www.villageofnewpaltz.org

My guess is that a month or two there will be cities in over 20 or 30 states performing gay marriages. If Bush and the religious right wants to clamp down on it, it's going to be very difficult. Way to go Natoma.
 
Natoma said:
Don't worry John. I'll be sure to send you your own autographed copy for hanging on your wall. You'll be the only one. Don't worry. :)

That's OK, you'll get a home video of me and the wife in return. 8)
 
You oughta get married in Toronto Canada man! At least on a national level the union will be respected. :)
 
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Congratulations
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Congrats.

And quite frankly I think the whole ban gay marriage issue is a ridiculous waste of the taxpayer's money.
 
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