Woman charged with killing fetus

[Joe DeFuria]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-12-mother-charged_x.htm

Now, personally, I think what she did was essentially manslaughter.

However, since I don't believe at this time it's against the law to not follow a doctor's recommendations, I don't see how this case has any real grounds, and I think it's a bit misguided.

But if abortion is ever outlawed say, past 6 months, then it would follow that a mother would have to follow a doctor's recommendations when it comes to the safety of the child.

 

[John Reynolds]

I read about this yesterday and I'm undecided. The main reason why is that charging her assumes that both babies would've lived had a C-section been performed. While it sounds like the procedure would've greatly increased the odds for a healthy (or healthier) delivery there's still no guarantee both would've lived.

Still, seems fairly callous to blatantly disregard a doctor's advice like that. I wonder if she sought a 2nd or 3rd opinion if she was so set against a C-section?

 

[nelg]

I would have to go with intent. If a woman decides to have a baby and is pregnant then she is morally obliged (and in away an implied contract) to care for it (them) both inside and outside of the womb. With this point of view I agree that she should be charged.

As an aside, just think what a unselfish mother she is shaping up as .

 

[Hellbinder]

I really wish the whole "Fetus" Garbage would get tossed out the Window. Its nothing but a twisted term used to detract from the Idea that we are talking about HUMAN BABYS. Born or Unborn it does not matter. The child 3 min before Birth and 3 min after Birth is Exactly the same Child.

More or less this is just a ploy to make things like Abortion etc seem more palatable to those who dont want to take responsability for their own actions.

This woman should be convicted of Murder as Should ALL WOMEN and doctors who kill preborn children. EXCEPT in the case of valid medical Health Risks. How the hell did our Culture get to the point where Murder is a legal acceptable form of Birth Control? Instead of the exception to the Rule under specific Circumstances?

Now they are legalizing a Pill that will do the Job for you... Of course if you kill the same exact Child 10 Seconds after the Chord is Cut its a totally Different matter...

 

[kyleb]

ya it is different, the child has been born at that point.


as for this case, i think it is absurd. the woman simply wanted to have a natrual child birth, leting nature take it's course is hardly murder.

 

[Althornin]

I really wish the whole "Fetus" Garbage would get tossed out the Window. Its nothing but a twisted term used to detract from the Idea that we are talking about HUMAN BABYS. Born or Unborn it does not matter. The child 3 min before Birth and 3 min after Birth is Exactly the same Child.

More or less this is just a ploy to make things like Abortion etc seem more palatable to those who dont want to take responsability for their own actions.

This woman should be convicted of Murder as Should ALL WOMEN and doctors who kill preborn children. EXCEPT in the case of valid medical Health Risks. How the hell did our Culture get to the point where Murder is a legal acceptable form of Birth Control? Instead of the exception to the Rule under specific Circumstances?

Now they are legalizing a Pill that will do the Job for you... Of course if you kill the same exact Child 10 Seconds after the Chord is Cut its a totally Different matter...

Its not the same exact child.
The same way you cannot step in the same stream twice....
The line between human being and non-human being has to be drawn somewhere.
Before you rant and rave, where do you draw it?
Conception?
an 8 cell lump?
Where?
Because no matter where you draw it, i can offer up a ranting nonsensical argument like the one you just provided.
You still dont get it. And you are so close minded, i fear you never will.

 

[Natoma]

This is the same problem that came up in the Laci Peterson case when Scott Peterson was charged with not only the murder of Laci, but the murder of their unborn child. Lots and lots of problems with the current abortion laws and prosecutions such as this.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Before you rant and rave, where do you draw it?
Conception?
an 8 cell lump?
Where?

It's certainly somehwere between conception and birth, no?

So why how can people insist on not moving anywhere from one extreme...birth?

 

[Legion]

oh the hypocrisy...

Hellbinder your argument is completely idiotic from a psychological standpoint. Didn't you know this is a common for of rationalizing? its not a baby if we don't say it is so. Get it straight and get with the progam you woman beating misogynist!


-btw stop photoshopping your 3d mark 2003 score.

 

[kyleb]

Joe, when you say how old you are, what point do you count from?

 

[epicstruggle]

I wonder if she sought a 2nd or 3rd opinion if she was so set against a C-section?

This is what has been reported. She went to 3 different hospitals, where she got the same news. HAVE A C-SECTION, or your babie(s) will die. She said she didnt want a scar. She actually signed papers stating she understood what would happen if she waited.

BTW both babies would have lived with a c-section according to doctors.

She should be charged with killing this baby. Seems simple enough.

Let me ask you pro-choice nuts a question(s).
1)Lets take a pregnant lady who is minutes from delivering, I drop kick her ass. Causing the baby to die inside of her, before having a chance to be delivered. Murder or not?
2)same situation and 1 month before delivery
3)same situation and 3 months before delivery

hope some of you who belive in wholesale abortion take the time to answer.

later,
epic

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Joe, when you say how old you are, what point do you count from?

It's called a birthday for a reason. That's when you were born. This says nothing about how long you've been alive.

When the OBGYN gives the expected birth date, what day does he start counting from?

 

[John Reynolds]

Let me ask you pro-choice nuts a question(s).

later,
epic

Can we have a discussion without the name calling and labelling, guys? Please.

 

[epicstruggle]

Let me ask you pro-choice nuts a question(s).

later,
epic

Can we have a discussion without the name calling and labelling, guys? Please.

Why should we break with tradition? Everyone around here, does it from time to time. Even you JR. 8)

I hope you take the time to answer the question posted in my post, instead of nitpicking with my use of words. Thanks,

epic

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Can we have a discussion without the name calling and labelling, guys? Please.

Sure thing, you liberal pinko....of course, feel free to continue to use the mystical NeoCon label yourself.

 

[Legion]

i prefer to be called pro-murder

 

[kyleb]

Joe, when you say how old you are, what point do you count from?

It's called a birthday for a reason. That's when you were born. This says nothing about how long you've been alive.

i didn't say "when you say how many birthdays did you have" i said " when you say how old you are."

 

[John Reynolds]

Why should we break with tradition? Everyone around here, does it from time to time. Even you JR. 8)

Link, please. I've taken the high ground when repeatedly attacked by certain people (you're a political tool, you're stupid, you're a hypocrite, you're a pro-abortion nut, ad nauseum). And please don't respond with when I wrote, "Joe, you're not that naive", which is a negative assertion and hardly name calling. The only reason I haven't gotten rude right back is because I feel like I should at least try to set an example as a mod. But I'm human. . .repeatedly push my buttons and I'm going to react.

I hope you take the time to answer the question posted in my post, instead of nitpicking with my use of words. Thanks,

epic

Where have I written that I'm all for abortion? In fact, I recently wrote a long post describing why I'm very uncomfortable with abortions since the birth of my daughter. All I've written is that I'm undecided on whether or not manslaughter charges should be brought against this woman because, to me, it appears to be based on the assumption that both babies would've absolutely lived had a C-section been performed. There's no guarantee in life. Her decision sounds like it's based on horribly selfish motives, and for that I think there's a knee-jerk reaction to want to punish her. I'm just not sure that's the right thing to do.

 

[Maggi]

In most countries it is a crime not to help a person in danger if you can do it without a risk to yourself. All surgeries are a risk. The question is, is that risk big enough so it can be used as an excuse to justify not to go to the surgery to save the child? Or, is the risk so small that it does not count in this matter?

 

[speng]

HAVE A C-SECTION, or your babie(s) will die. She said she didnt want a scar.

I think she "should" have had a C-Section to save her children.

Another question:
You have to take your kidney to give to one of your children for them to live?

You refuse, are you commiting a crime?

I think she was selfish and didn't think about her unborn children and take a step to make what some would say a simple sacrifice.


Another question:
Those people who take drugs while pregnant or smoke while pregnant causing their child to have an undeveloped lung and die during the birth process.

Are they commiting a crime?


In this situation one person makes a conscious choice to risk their childs life rather than causing bodily harm.

In the other situation one person makes a conscious choice to cause harm to themself and their child.

Which is worse? Which is a crime? or which should be a crime?

Speng.