Woman charged with killing fetus

[John Reynolds]

Sure thing, you liberal pinko....of course, feel free to continue to use the mystical NeoCon label yourself.

So mystical it's been written about in numerous publications.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And please don't respond with when I wrote, "Joe, you're not that naive", which is a negative assertion and hardly name calling.

Bah...if you're going to bring that up again, then I'm going to ask for an apology again. I was offended by it, and consider it a direct insult.... and I don't have the luxury of deleting posts like you do.

Want to set an example? Apologize. I already offered a "mutual apology", which you flat out rejected. Not quite the example I think you should be setting for others.

 

[epicstruggle]

Ill take the time to answer, unlike others.

HAVE A C-SECTION, or your babie(s) will die. She said she didnt want a scar.

I think she "should" have had a C-Section to save her children.

Another question:
You have to take your kidney to give to one of your children for them to live?

You refuse, are you commiting a crime?

No. Although I dont know of a parent who wouldnt do all they could to save their child.

I think she was selfish and didn't think about her unborn children and take a step to make what some would say a simple sacrifice.


Another question:
Those people who take drugs while pregnant or smoke while pregnant causing their child to have an undeveloped lung and die during the birth process.

Are they commiting a crime?

Yes. These people should be put into some sort of program that would require them to stay clean for their babies sake. I believe that in some states its already illegal of a mother to take drugs/alcohol while pregnant.

In this situation one person makes a conscious choice to risk their childs life rather than causing bodily harm.

In the other situation one person makes a conscious choice to cause harm to themself and their child.

Which is worse? Which is a crime? or which should be a crime?

Speng.

There are levels here, clearly. If several doctors tell you that your healthy living baby will die if you dont have a c-section, you should be charged if you dont. She was in no medical danger, so she cant use that as an excuse.

later,
epic

 

[oi]

I'm under the belief that as long as a child is inside the stomach of a mother, it's all up to her. Unborn children are probably so far down on my list of what I care about so it's an insignificant matter to me. When the mother makes to choice to release said beast upon the world it all changes for me though. But for me there are so many other things to care about and place higher value upon than a chunk of meat who's life relies upon the well being of the carrier.

 

[epicstruggle]

I'm under the belief that as long as a child is inside the stomach of a mother, it's all up to her. Unborn children are probably so far down on my list of what I care about so it's an insignificant matter to me. When the mother makes to choice to release said beast upon the world it all changes for me though. But for me there are so many other things to care about and place higher value upon than a chunk of meat who's life relies upon the well being of the carrier.

Im not trying to insult you here oi, but people who have such views, are what i call pro-choice nuts. I take oi, that you would be against laws that would make it murder to kill an unborn baby? So i could drop kick as many pregnant ladies as I want.

later,
epic

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm under the belief that as long as a child is inside the stomach of a mother, it's all up to her.

The child has bigger problems to worry about if it's in the mother's stomach.

Unborn children are probably so far down on my list of what I care about so it's an insignificant matter to me.

So, what exactly is important to you? Let me guess:

"Clear air, clean water, punish evil corporations, and give me everything I want for free."

Right?

But for me there are so many other things to care about and place higher value upon than a chunk of meat who's life relies upon the well being of the carrier.

I'll make a guess that you don't have kids...

 

[Natoma]

I'm under the belief that as long as a child is inside the stomach of a mother, it's all up to her.

The child has bigger problems to worry about if it's in the mother's stomach.

Leave oi alone. You know what he means.

Unborn children are probably so far down on my list of what I care about so it's an insignificant matter to me.

So, what exactly is important to you? Let me guess:

"Clear air, clean water, punish evil corporations, and give me everything I want for free."

Right?

As if clear air, clean water, punishing evil corporations, and getting everything you want for free are necessarily bad things?

But for me there are so many other things to care about and place higher value upon than a chunk of meat who's life relies upon the well being of the carrier.

I'll make a guess that you don't have kids...

There are abortion supporters who have kids ya know.

 

[Natoma]

Im not trying to insult you here oi, but people who have such views, are what i call pro-choice nuts. I take oi, that you would be against laws that would make it murder to kill an unborn baby? So i could drop kick as many pregnant ladies as I want.

This is the same problem that came up in the Laci Peterson case when Scott Peterson was charged with not only the murder of Laci, but the murder of their unborn child. Lots and lots of problems with the current abortion laws and prosecutions such as this.

 

[oi]

Im not trying to insult you here oi, but people who have such views, are what i call pro-choice nuts. I take oi, that you would be against laws that would make it murder to kill an unborn baby? So i could drop kick as many pregnant ladies as I want.

Nope, if the mother wants to have the child then it'd be murder, if she had no intention of giving birth to it, then who cares? Then it'd just be assault or whatever you call it.

So, what exactly is important to you? Let me guess:

"Clear air, clean water, punish evil corporations, and give me everything I want for free."

Right?

Wow, close, but not close enough sir. I do however congratulate you over such a fine try at an insult.

 

[epicstruggle]

Natoma, could tell me if you are for or against suck laws? I read your comments and your emoticon, and couldnt figure out if your for or against it.

thanks
epic

 

[speng]

"She was in no medical danger, so she cant use that as an excuse."

Surgery is always a risk. So saying "no danger" is a stretch.


You are begining to put levels of risk on whether to charge someone with a crime. When the risk involves them getting hurt in order to save someone's life.

Is there similar written law, that charges someone with not putting themself in harms way, to save anothers life depending on level of harm involved?

How do we describe this level of harm? and what these levels are?

I don't see this going far, because you would have to categorize all types of danger and their damage level.

I don't think she should be charged, but I think it's a shame she made such a choice.

Case in point:
How is this different from abortion?

Need info: Is late-term abortion illegal? 6+months can't remember.
If it is then ignore my previous question.

Speng.

 

[epicstruggle]

speng, i dont have statistics, but I think its common sense to say that natural child birth is more dangerous than having a c section specially with twins. So she would have been safer with a c-section.

btw im not sure about late term abortion, but partial birth abortion is illegal.

later,
epic

 

[Natoma]

My comment epic is on the dichotomy that exists in our current legal structure. On one hand we have legalized abortion and supporters of that in the judicial system. On the other hand we have Scott Peterson being charged with the murder of his unborn child and wife, and this woman being charged with the murder of her unborn child.

All I'm saying is that we can't have it both ways. Either abortion is legal and anything that causes the death of a fetus is not prosecutable, or abortion is illegal and Scott Peterson and this woman from the article can be charged with a crime.

The current abortion laws and prosecutions that are going on today are in direct conflict, and there needs to be a resolution. Lots and lots of problems is all I'm saying.

 

[Natoma]

speng, i dont have statistics, but I think its common sense to say that natural child birth is more dangerous than having a c section specially with twins. So she would have been safer with a c-section.

btw im not sure about late term abortion, but partial birth abortion is illegal.

later,
epic

I dunno about that. It would seem to me that any surgery requiring anesthesia and cutting would be far more dangerous than natural child birth.

As for late term abortion vs partial birth abortion, partial birth abortion is just the name given to the procedure to perform the abortion, not necessarily when it's done. The procedue is rather grotesque. It requires the doctor reaching into the womb, pulling the baby out by the feet until the base of the neck is exposed, opening up a cut, inserting a hose, and sucking out the brain tissue, killing the fetus.

The ban was on the procedure, not when it was done.

Ugh that turned my stomach just describing it... :?

 

[John Reynolds]

And please don't respond with when I wrote, "Joe, you're not that naive", which is a negative assertion and hardly name calling.

Bah...if you're going to bring that up again, then I'm going to ask for an apology again. I was offended by it, and consider it a direct insult.... and I don't have the luxury of deleting posts like you do.

Want to set an example? Apologize. I already offered a "mutual apology", which you flat out rejected. Not quite the example I think you should be setting for others.

Joe, what you're arguing for is a scenario of a person slapping another several times and then getting pushed back and having the temerity to demand an apology for being pushed when their own actions have clearly been far worse. Your mutual apology was just a segued attempt to still get an apology you felt was your due after I called a truce of sorts. I brokered the peace but you weren't happy with it.

Moreover, you demanded an apology while using the eye roll emoticon knowing full well it's become annoying as hell to me lately in the way it's constantly over-used. Let me annoy you by stomping on your foot and then demand an apology.

 

[epicstruggle]

Nope, if the mother wants to have the child then it'd be murder, if she had no intention of giving birth to it, then who cares? Then it'd just be assault or whatever you call it.

Why would what the mother think, matter if the baby is alive or not??

2 pregnant ladies, one is a complete pro-lifer, the other a complete pro-choice person(who believes that a baby has no rights until after birth).
I drop kick them both, killing their babies. Is it murder for one but not the other??? Seems like they are either both murder or not.

later,
epic

 

[oi]

Why would what the mother think, matter if the baby is alive or not??

2 pregnant ladies, one is a complete pro-lifer, the other a complete pro-choice person(who believes that a baby has no rights until after birth).
I drop kick them both, killing their babies. Is it murder for one but not the other??? Seems like they are either both murder or not.

I don't mean to insult you, but you're what I use to call a person with comprehension problems. I'm not placing different rules upon anyone. I'm saying that if the mother thinks it's murder, then it's murder. If the mother didn't want the child in the first place, then why should it be murder? The kid is going to die anyway. It's up to the mother to decide if it would be murder or not. Drop kick a pregnant woman who wants the child, it's murder. Drop kick a pregnant woman who's going to do an abortion, then why would it matter?

If friend of mine got pregnant and wanted to have the child, I'd support her. If same friend wanted to make an abortion, I'd also support her. I don't see any sense in a forcing someone to give birth if they don't want to have a child. Sure, call them retards or whatever for getting pregnant without wanting a child, I'll agree with that. But I still don't see any sense in letting a child growing up in a family which didn't want it in the first place.

I'm gonna go punish some evil corporations now so I'll probably not have time to respond for a while.[/quote]

 

[speng]

I drop kick them both

You love to drop kick eh...

Speng

 

[epicstruggle]

oi, i take it your not a lawyer. Reason i say so is because there are famous what if's that are debated while you learn the law. Such as if I shot my gun at a window (from an apartment building) and kills a man who is trying to commit suicide while jumping from a higher window. How about if i go into a room see a bed with a dead man, but i dont know the man is dead, I shoot to kill them. Did i commit murder(or attempt), which was my intent? These what if's have been debated for decades. My what if's follow the same way. What a person thinks is not enough to determine whether or not someone is alive or not. The point is: its either always illegal or always murder. There isnt a "but she was on her way to an abortion", so its not murder.

later,
epic

 

[epicstruggle]

I drop kick them both

You love to drop kick eh...

Speng

yeah i noticed that too. Im going to sleep and try to forget all these women ive droped kicked today. I think instead ill start using "Im going animal planet on their ass."

later,
epic