Windows tablets

[eastmen]

Why can't I play my purchased XBLA games on my PS3????

because its not an industry standard unlike mp3's .

Why can't ms bundle its browser into its os's in europe but apple can put safari in it ?


The fact remains that apple applied DRM to MP3s to force consumers into staying with apple products.

The courts hearing the case against apple will decide if they were wrong and apply the proper response to it.

Of course because apple did this several better products fell by the wayside .

 

[RudeCurve]

because its not an industry standard unlike mp3's .

Why can't ms bundle its browser into its os's in europe but apple can put safari in it ?


The fact remains that apple applied DRM to MP3s to force consumers into staying with apple products.

The courts hearing the case against apple will decide if they were wrong and apply the proper response to it.

Of course because apple did this several better products fell by the wayside .

I can play non DRM music files on my iPhone just fine. I don't need to buy music from iTunes. In fact none of the music on my iPhone has been purchased from iTunes...as I don't even buy music from iTunes.

 

[Laurent06]

most likely because they lack the huge marketing budget that the ipad 2 is enjoying ?

I rather think it's because 90% of the population doesn't care about Windows on such a device and because 90% of people don't need the performance level you a tech inclined guy wants (especially when that performance implies lower battery life).

 

[eastmen]

edited out since he was banned

 

[eastmen]

I rather think it's because 90% of the population doesn't care about Windows on such a device and because 90% of people don't need the performance level you a tech inclined guy wants (especially when that performance implies lower battery life).

I think 90% of the population doesn't care what OS it runs as long as they are told that its the cool thing and they will look cool using it.


I believe that is one of the basic laws of marketing.


Aside from that if ms smartly brings xbox live to its tablet platform (windows 8 metro ui) they can get alot of users over esp if they intergrate the services found on the xbox 360 to the tablet experiance.

There is a large population of 360 gamers out there and i'm sure alot of people will love playing some xbox live arcade games across platforms from the pc to the tablet to the phone to the xbox . MS just needs to start hitting all the right notes

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I think 90% of the population doesn't care what OS it runs as long as they are told that its the cool thing and they will look cool using it.


I believe that is one of the basic laws of marketing.

The form factor and the apparent smoothiness of the experience are really important factors. Noboby can touch Apple on the form factor. The importance of that is really big. The difference currently in that aspect is like a mobile phone from 2000 vs 2010 in Apples favour. The faster specs also don't matter if you are looking at loading screens more often.

Despite some of you guys wanting same stuff from tablets that laptops are better at, the large market is not going to agree, and it's not because of marketing. I do hope that MS and the Android can give Apple run for their money, maybe that would push Apple to make the experience better. Currently the flash thing is a pain in the butt and I'd wish that the HDMI output comes with the unit, whether adapter or built in.

 

[Ailuros]

Microsoft and/or Intel/AMD never ever use a shred of marketing for selling their products. Is that what I should understand here? Especially Intel's settlement with AMD showed that Intel for one always sold their products with completely ethical methods

That shouldn't mean that I don't use products from all 3 companies for years now (and don't intend to stop either), both for desktop OSs as for CPUs unless something competitive and as stable appears from alternative companies which doesn' t seem likely.

Marketing can't save a crappy product; even if some consumers fall for it once it's highly unlikely they'll fall for it a second or third time if products after that are problematic too.

Quite a few of Apple's design decisions both on the sw as on the hw level are highly questionable; however I'm sure it will be quite easy to convince that they have crappy hw in their devices and even worse paired with equally crappy sw. The real question should be here what everyone else in the tablet market so far is doing wrong in order for Apple to be able to sustain its high sales figures.

 

[Lazy8s]

The companies and products that succeed cater to the user better. It's really that simple.

The user wants their product to respond when they control it. Flick a list/page/screen on iOS. Exit an app. Start a new one. Pinch to zoom. Nothing is as smooth nor as responsive as iOS.

Need a good GPU to make a GUI like that. Apple strategically alligns to the top graphics/video designer, so they can introduce a new product when the very latest tech becomes available to gain an even bigger advantage.

Apple wanted to tap the open market for application development for their iOS devices, so they've given users and developers a one-stop shop. Not a file system for managing and installing, hosted across a million different servers and sources. Just their own single, centralized host.

How much is all that convenience worth to the end user? Look at Apple's profits and market share.

The PC is just a multipurpose platform that caters to nothing but its own flexibility. It doesn't acknowledge the priorities of the user, and it only ever captured certain multimedia markets for a time because of the absence of competent dedicated competition (like game consoles, media streamers for music and video, etc.)

The same patterns can be seen in other disruptive products: Netflix, Redbox and its ilk, and so on. People have enough stuff going on in their lives that they only respond en masse to products that make them think "That's easy enough. Why wasn't any other product doing it this way?"

 

[eastmen]

The form factor and the apparent smoothiness of the experience are really important factors. Noboby can touch Apple on the form factor. The importance of that is really big. The difference currently in that aspect is like a mobile phone from 2000 vs 2010 in Apples favour. The faster specs also don't matter if you are looking at loading screens more often.

Despite some of you guys wanting same stuff from tablets that laptops are better at, the large market is not going to agree, and it's not because of marketing. I do hope that MS and the Android can give Apple run for their money, maybe that would push Apple to make the experience better. Currently the flash thing is a pain in the butt and I'd wish that the HDMI output comes with the unit, whether adapter or built in.

What form factor ? The ipad is the same thing as the other tablets. Some weigh a little more and some a little less

The ipad 2 is

9.50 x 7.31 x .34 1.33lbs

The iconia w500 is

9.5 x 7.31 x .34 and weights 1.33lbs according to amazon

With the iconia you also get the 10.1 inch screen vs a 9.7inch screen. You get the higher resolution , the more powerful cpu / gpu. You also get hdmi built in and an sd card reader built in among other things.

The only advantage i really see to the ipad is the slightly better touch interface (depending on who you ask) and better battery life. The iconia still gives 6 hours normal surfing the web and 4 hours watching 1080p video


So I must be missing something when we talk about form factor

 

[eastmen]

Microsoft and/or Intel/AMD never ever use a shred of marketing for selling their products. Is that what I should understand here? Especially Intel's settlement with AMD showed that Intel for one always sold their products with completely ethical methods

That shouldn't mean that I don't use products from all 3 companies for years now (and don't intend to stop either), both for desktop OSs as for CPUs unless something competitive and as stable appears from alternative companies which doesn' t seem likely.

Marketing can't save a crappy product; even if some consumers fall for it once it's highly unlikely they'll fall for it a second or third time if products after that are problematic too.

Quite a few of Apple's design decisions both on the sw as on the hw level are highly questionable; however I'm sure it will be quite easy to convince that they have crappy hw in their devices and even worse paired with equally crappy sw. The real question should be here what everyone else in the tablet market so far is doing wrong in order for Apple to be able to sustain its high sales figures.

The other companys advertise , windows 7 had a huge budget for that and look at how well its selling compared to vista .

However what do you think the marketing budget of the zune was compared to the ipod ? How about the xoom compared to the ipad ? Its vastly smaller budgets compared to what apple spends.

As for what apple is doing right. Its advertising and low price. The $500 ipad is a low cost of entry and the other companys like motorala are coming out at more expensive price points. However asus and acer along with a few other companys are getting out andriod tablet for less money now. The a500 iconia should be $450 and the asus transformer was listed at $400 before it was pulled.

The other advantage is apparently nand pricing on apples side , they buy so much more through ipod /iphone/ ipad sales that they can get much better margins. As the andriod tablets start to sell better they will get better margins and be able to drop the price.

But seriously prices for andriod tablets have been sky high

 

[wco81]

There are Tablet PCs now right? They come with keyboards and styluses?

Oh right, those didn't sell.

Because MS didn't market it enough, that's it. Poor MS, doesn't have the money to advertise like Apple ...

How much was their Windows 7 Phone ad budget? Half a billion or something like that?

 

[Laurent06]

The iconia w500 is

9.5 x 7.31 x .34 and weights 1.33lbs according to amazon

These look wrong. According to Acer website it's 210 x 280 mm and 1kg, which in non-metric units mean 11.0 x 8.27 and 2.2 lbs.

This site says 27.5cm by 19cm by 1.59cm (10.8 x 7.48 x 0.62).

It suddenly feels less sexy

I also invite you to show photos of both devices to your wife and see how she reacts.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Yeah Amazon has listed Ipad 2 specs for that Acer model, Laurent06 has the right specs. way less sexy Acer also looks cheaper, but maybe with Win 8 can be nice.

 

[swaaye]

Trying to figure out what attracts the giant group think mind of the masses is tricky business. But I would bet on social enabling features every time. Texting created the smart phone market and Facebook/etc reinforced that. Apple has an aesthetic / glamor / coolness quality that tickles some people's brains on the other hand, and they control music for most people thanks to iTunes (basically another social enabler really). Of course making everything as easy as possible works very well too because most people don't want figure stuff out on their own.

Tablet PCs just didn't really seem to have real unique utility to me. I'm still on the fence with them honestly, even today's super trendy editions of the idea. But I bought a cheap Nook Color to mod and mess with to get a taste of the supposed revolution.

 

[Ailuros]

The other companys advertise , windows 7 had a huge budget for that and look at how well its selling compared to vista .

The case in point still is that something like win7 sold and sells so good because it's ironically all around better than Vista was.

However what do you think the marketing budget of the zune was compared to the ipod ?

What makes you think that the zune was a better product than its competing iPod?

How about the xoom compared to the ipad ? Its vastly smaller budgets compared to what apple spends.

I didn't see any glorious reviews about the Xoom so far. It's by far not a bad attempt, rather the contrary but the consumer still will hold back (as he probably also will with a Blackberry Playbook as another example) until all hiccups are ironed out.

As for what apple is doing right. Its advertising and low price. The $500 ipad is a low cost of entry and the other companys like motorala are coming out at more expensive price points. However asus and acer along with a few other companys are getting out andriod tablet for less money now. The a500 iconia should be $450 and the asus transformer was listed at $400 before it was pulled.

No it isn't the only factor. iOS and it's overall smoothness and sw stability is another quite important selling factor. Up until Honeycomb gets most of its hiccups ironed out it sounds like a tough way to go for any competitor.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4277/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review/9

The biggest issues here are software related. Honeycomb has matured significantly just with the 3.0.1 update, but there are still dock and camera behavior issues that need to be worked out before ASUS takes the Eee Pad to market. I feel like Honeycomb got a worse rap than it deserves, but there are real issues that need addressing here. I lost a couple of pages of this review thanks to an unexpected hard lock and a reboot while typing this on the Eee Pad. For casual use it's not an issue but the platform isn't mature enough for real work yet.
So why do companies keep introducing tablets with known software issues? I always remember what AMD's Eric Demers once told me: the best way to lose a fight is to not show up.

Eric has always been a wise man by the way.



Get it right and then confront the competition.

The other advantage is apparently nand pricing on apples side , they buy so much more through ipod /iphone/ ipad sales that they can get much better margins. As the andriod tablets start to sell better they will get better margins and be able to drop the price.

But seriously prices for andriod tablets have been sky high

I don't know about you but if I'd see today a Honeycomb tablet on display with a 10" screen, a 720p resolution, all the things that the iPads are missing included being as stable and reliable as iOS on the software side I'd gladly chew another $100 in terms of prices over an iPad. Now leave for a second your own preferences / emotional approach aside and tell me what today's average consumer is missing on non-iOS tablets mostly.

Besides Anand and many others I'd personally love to see a real "iPad-killer". I just don't know yet where it's hiding.

 

[Sxotty]

The average consumer doesn't know crap about what they are buying. They see flashy nice ads and by accordingly. That is the case for many products and drives economists crazy b/c they cannot understand why consumers are not acting "rationally."

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Oh I don't mind em, really. I just don't see them flying off the shelves. Specs are just one factor, shouldn't be overrated in importance.

If the Iconia W500 had suffered from the same hysterical free-publicity from the mass media as the iPad 2, and the iPad 2 had suffered from the same null interest from the mass media, I can bet with you all you want that the Iconia W500 would be constantly sold out, and the iPad 2 would be sitting idle in the shelves.

Let's be honest here, 99% of the people who bought an iPad 1 don't even really know why they'd want the iPad 2. But they want it nonetheless.

Marketing can't save a crappy product; even if some consumers fall for it once it's highly unlikely they'll fall for it a second or third time if products after that are problematic too.

Many, many Apple products would say otherwise.
Just look at iPod Shuffle. It's the most comically useless product I've seen in my life, and there's already like 4 generations of it.

 

[metafor]

Let's be honest here, 99% of the people who bought an iPad 1 don't even really know why they'd want the iPad 2. But they want it nonetheless.

I think that's a bit of a hyperbole. They know it's thinner and lighter; primary reasons to buy one. As long as the UI isn't laggy and most apps run well, they could care less or know anything about the internals.

 

[3dcgi]

If the Iconia W500 had suffered from the same hysterical free-publicity from the mass media as the iPad 2, and the iPad 2 had suffered from the same null interest from the mass media, I can bet with you all you want that the Iconia W500 would be constantly sold out, and the iPad 2 would be sitting idle in the shelves.

Let's be honest here, 99% of the people who bought an iPad 1 don't even really know why they'd want the iPad 2. But they want it nonetheless.



Many, many Apple products would say otherwise.
Just look at iPod Shuffle. It's the most comically useless product I've seen in my life, and there's already like 4 generations of it.

I'd guess most people that have bought the iPad so far aren't idiots. Plus, what's not to understand? It's a large iPod Touch. I've had a convertible Windows tablet for 5+ years yet I can still acknowledge it's not what most people want.

Plus, I've never bought an Apple product but I saw the appeal of the Shuffle. It's great for runners who want something light and aren't going to stop to mess with it while they run.

I hope Microsoft isn't in a state of denial about why their products failed to gain mass adoption and will make Windows 8 a compelling product. I haven't seen enough to have confidence though.

 

[Ailuros]

Many, many Apple products would say otherwise.
Just look at iPod Shuffle. It's the most comically useless product I've seen in my life, and there's already like 4 generations of it.

Just because it's useless to me or you doesn't mean it applies for the crapload of consumers that have bought one. Exactly there are 4 generations of it and it's still selling. Here's something to make it even more useless: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21447

Where are the successful 4 generations of Zune and why did Microsoft axe it? Because they haven't marketed it enough or don't have the resources to market it any further if it would had survived?

Let's be honest here, 99% of the people who bought an iPad 1 don't even really know why they'd want the iPad 2. But they want it nonetheless.

I could say the exact same thing for ANY follow-up product within a year compared to its predecessor. If iPads would run a windows OS how and why would it be any different?

Instead of attempting to analyze the psychology of the average consumer, it would be wiser to try to find what Apple is doing right because with marketing alone you don't come close to a bulk of less than 200M devices in only a couple of years. If I'd be taking decisions in a large competing IHV calling all those consumers clueless or idiots would be easy, but it won't help my business nor will I stay competitive living in denial.