Windows 8 Dev build

[UniversalTruth]

Sure, and what happens when you start to pin 50+ programs to your start menu and task bar?

Nothing special. I have at present 17 programs visible and the start menu itself doesn't occupy the full height of my display. So, I guess I can put there approximately 25 without problems. And given that you can have even a higher resolution panel, that would mean without a problem even more...
The taskbar also can fit quite a lot icons.
Not to mention that you can have everything on your desktop.

I currently have 89 programs pinned to my start screen

Oh dear, you are a special case, rather an exception than a rule.

Most keyboards these days have a 'calculator' button.

Yup, even my Logitech Wave has it but unfortunately I don't even care to install the driver for it

Oh, the Calculator button luckily works without a driver. But the other media buttons don't

 

[Blazkowicz]

In XP I used the classic menu (Classic Shell adds it back in windows 7/8)
You could add shortcut and folders to the top of it, so you're not limited to the "Programs" hierarchy. A folder full of shortcuts is essentially another, non nested menu you add to the start menu.
So at the top I had a shortcut to cmd.exe, then "Apps" folder full of useful stuff I would like instant access to (Firefox, putty, filezilla, virtualbox etc.), then "Games" which gave me one click access to games (Far Cry, Quake 3, Counterstrike and whatever).

It was extremely keyboard navigable too (win key, down, enter : bam command prompt!)
Even the "Programs" menu can be quite trimmed down, first there's "sort by name", then you can delete totally useless crap (stuff about java and codecs, games hanging there whatever), delete stuff you never use (windows movie maker, windows messenger), move some shortcuts from "Programs\Vendor\bunch of crap" to just "Programs" and delete the rest.

 

[hoom]

Christ, I already remove the left Win button on my keyboards because its annoying while playing games, they seriously think people want the dumb button on a mouse?

It should be on the taskbar though.

As for those default Metro apps: Anyone actually tried using that abortion of a Mail client they have installed by default?
After pretending it didn't exist for a while to avoid having to do it I wrote the guide for our helpdesk.

Had sort of managed to bury the awful traumatic memories but they came back to surface today because one of the guys doing training was going through it with newbies & was astounded by the badness.

Seriously, a very common situation in the process of setting it up is a completely blank white screen, easily replicated & utterly unobvious how to proceed X-/

My guide is in 3 sections:
The easy way -install something else
The hard way -tell them our server settings & get them to call Microsoft or anyone other than us for help to actually make that PoS work properly
The really hard way -how to actually set it up & get out of the myriad of weird messed up states that its easy to get to.

 

[Blazkowicz]

About the mail client.. there's a war between Microsoft and Google, which means there will never be a gmail client in Metro, right? I'm glad I use yahoo, so if I ever have to use an "apps" based system I will probably be less affected by those stupid cold war practices.

Is there a Google Earth, or is it desktop only?
On the other hand there's quite a trick, Microsoft's youtube app for Windows RT (or is it windows phone, or Metro, I don't fucking know) : they have made an application to use youtube but advertisments are disabled and there's a big download link
It's like they made it to piss them off, but Google can't block Microsoft because the point of youtube is to serve stuff via http to anything that resembles a browser or act as if it were one.. Blocking microsoft users would endanger youtube itself so it'd be a nukular option.
BTW Microsoft says advertisements are "not enabled" because Google isn't cooperative enough (they would need to use Google's API, but the download feature is a big no no in the terms of use so Microsoft does what they want with their own code instead)

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

On the other hand there's quite a trick, Microsoft's youtube app for Windows RT (or is it windows phone, or Metro, I don't fucking know) : they have made an application to use youtube but advertisments are disabled and there's a big download link
It's like they made it to piss them off, but Google can't block Microsoft because the point of youtube is to serve stuff via http to anything that resembles a browser or act as if it were one.. Blocking microsoft users would endanger youtube itself so it'd be a nukular option.
BTW Microsoft says advertisements are "not enabled" because Google isn't cooperative enough (they would need to use Google's API, but the download feature is a big no no in the terms of use so Microsoft does what they want with their own code instead)

That's old news. Google sent MS a cease and desist letter, as the MS app breaches Youtube's terms and conditions. MS has pulled the app and now both companies have agreed to write a new one together.

 

[blakjedi]

I feel perfectly fine with my touchkeyboard, touchmouse, and touchpad. So, no, thank you, I don't need my PC or laptop with touchscreen. This is like changing the entire culture of customers and I am definitely not ready nor willing to accept it... There is no need to.

Regarding Vista... because it was mentioned again.
Does anyone have an explanation why Vista was horribly slow on the same hardware which makes Windows 7 fly?

I guarantee you that if you think windows 7 is "flying" Then windows 8 is lightning itself. Windows 8 has extraordinary speed for a desktop OS

 

[Silent_Buddha]

In XP I used the classic menu (Classic Shell adds it back in windows 7/8)
You could add shortcut and folders to the top of it, so you're not limited to the "Programs" hierarchy. A folder full of shortcuts is essentially another, non nested menu you add to the start menu.
So at the top I had a shortcut to cmd.exe, then "Apps" folder full of useful stuff I would like instant access to (Firefox, putty, filezilla, virtualbox etc.), then "Games" which gave me one click access to games (Far Cry, Quake 3, Counterstrike and whatever).

It was extremely keyboard navigable too (win key, down, enter : bam command prompt!)
Even the "Programs" menu can be quite trimmed down, first there's "sort by name", then you can delete totally useless crap (stuff about java and codecs, games hanging there whatever), delete stuff you never use (windows movie maker, windows messenger), move some shortcuts from "Programs\Vendor\bunch of crap" to just "Programs" and delete the rest.

I did the same, but it was still far more cumbersome than the Win8 start screen. Why go through various folders and nested folders in order to access your organized applications when instead you can organize them all on one level?

As I mentioned the only things I want improved to the start screen is horizontal dividers (so I can organize beyond just vertical divisions) as well as smaller tiles (the default small ones are too large, IMO) in addition to the current ones. After that the start screen would be just about perfect for organizing anything I'd ever want to access all in one level on one screen.

And to UniversalTruth,

I'm not quite a corner case. I know a lot of people that use a computer both for work and light recreation that have as many if not more applications that they access regularly, semi-regularly, uncommonly, and rarely that also appreciate having everything on one screen. Especially the ones that don't want to have to remember the name of the programs that they only have to use 2-4 times a year or where they put them in their start menu folder hierarchy.\

And yes, I also know people that are overwhelmed with the thought of having all the programs they need to access all presented on one screen that still prefer the old folder based start menu paradigm.

As well, at 2560x1600, my start menu took up the entire 1600 pixels from top to bottom in Vista and Win7. I know all about the pin to start menu as well as creating folders on the root level of the start menu.

For anything in a folder however, it was easier just to type out a partial name rather than go clicking or hovering over folders to get them to open to launch or repeat with another folder. I'm so glad I never have to do that again.

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

As well, at 2560x1600, my start menu took up the entire 1600 pixels from top to bottom in Vista and Win7.

You sure ? The start menu is a fixed height

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You sure ? The start menu is a fixed height

Yup, as you "pin to start menu" the menu will continue to expand vertically until you run out of screen space. Expanding a folder however will never expand the start menu.

Regards,
SB

 

[liolio]

Wow I finally installed Windows 8 PRO which I got for Christmas.
I was extremely wary about do so even though the few hand-on I had with winphone devices always had me hooked to the interface.

I've to say that I can't really make any comment about it without being trollish, that is how I feel...
It is fast but...
Imo it is out of this word, I would never have believe it was possible to have at the same time such an advance technology wrapped in the stupidest UI ever.
I don't get it, I was attracted to it (metro/modern UI), was wary about jumping to it (without a touch screen on a laptop and the comments I read here and there), I guess I felt like I had to try for my-self... I wanted a clean instal and got rid nicely of all those HP bloatware... what a load of bull... I will "deal with it" but I'm speechless about such a fucked up schizophrenic UI.

MSFT better gets its acts together imo, I can only imagine what my dad, sister or wife will say when they my laptop... I can deal with it for the sake of performances but ... well I am not an apologist for BS and that UI (or the blend of 2) is the most massive load of shit I've seen on something with MSFT (and actually it is unprecedented imo) written on it. I'm floored

To me more specific about some obvious stupid choices:
1) the horizontal scrolling in lot of metro apps (though there are that many...), this one rank high in the dark side imo
2) the ugly ass "desktop tiles" that you have to add to the neat METRO UI if you are ever concerned with convenience... it is dreadful, that lack "esthetic coherence" to me is worth than those stupid "charms"
3) the start menu... if you are schizophrenic be schizophrenic get both the start screen and the start menu... no need to hide in an old house wearing your mommy close pretending that you are an average dude...
4)killing METRO APPS...

5)which to me is close to be 1) in fact the waste of the metro UI, to me it is not the "start menu" that has to go back but the desktop, the old ugly icons, etc. Now they would need to tweak input for touchpad and mouse and that would be beautiful. For the pro, the answer is damned simple remove METRO UI altogether, I did support and I bet anybody that it will eons before any sane IT manager shifts to such a train wreck, 99% of the users would be lost, their managers rush into the IT department, countleess hours would be lost.
Imo that guy who left should not have left alone. Again I'm floored, I can't believe my eyes.

Overall, it is dreadful and on the contrary to what I read here and there re-introducing the start menu will barely fix anything. Some guy at MSFT have to be mental.

EDIT
Stupid me Synaptic was miss-configured so... well it is better now. Still overall my feeling are unchanged about the schizophrenia of that OS.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

4)killing METRO APPS...

Eh? Do you mean getting rid of Metro Apps entirely? Or just closing them or doing an end task on them? Because you can easily kill Metro Apps in Win8.

I hardly ever use Metro Apps in Win8 when on my desktop because there's no need. So Metro apps are completely irrelevant to my desktop experience. I'd had to see them gone when I'm on my tablet, however.

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

you can easily kill Metro Apps in Win8

How ? I never found that out

 

[Silent_Buddha]

How ? I never found that out

If you can't close them via the drag from top to bottom method, then they still appear in Task Manager just like desktop apps. At which point you can just right click -> end task.

Regards,
SB

 

[entity279]

Or you will find them 'looking' in the top left corner of your screen. Hover over, right click and close. This was hard to discover, I admit.

 

[Miksu]

If you can't close them via the drag from top to bottom method, then they still appear in Task Manager just like desktop apps. At which point you can just right click -> end task.

Also, ALT+F4 works too.

 

[liolio]

Thanks for the advices. I start to find my way around the new UI.
Killing Apps is no longer a issue (you can either drag them down or kill them after putting the mouse in one of the left corner).

Overall it is more workable than I though and I don't do much on my PC as far as productivity is concerned so I should be fine.

As a side note, the program Obly Tiles is pure awesomeness as it allows for neat customizations of the start screen. Actually MSFT should make either its won or buy them and make it standard.

I over-reacted a tad though I'm willing to learn I would not be too surprised if the average costumer might share my first impression of the product. The (extremely bothering for MSFT) difference is that it might stuck to its first impression.

 

[Malo]

I tell people who ask me nowadays about Windows 8 that they shouldn't judge it solely on what they hear or how they've used it on a common desktop/laptop. Until they really experience it on a multi-touch laptop/tablet then they're really missing out on why the new UI is designed as it is.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I tell people who ask me nowadays about Windows 8 that they shouldn't judge it solely on what they hear or how they've used it on a common desktop/laptop. Until they really experience it on a multi-touch laptop/tablet then they're really missing out on why the new UI is designed as it is.

Hell, it isn't even that much of a change for desktop users. If you think of the Start Screen as a more informative, more configurable, and immensely more useable Start Menu, then pretty much EVERYTHING is exactly the same from a desktop perspective. Well, exactly the same except tons better. Task manager, file copying, explorer, etc. are so vastly improved that I really can't stand Win7 anymore.

I think it's just 1 part stubbornness (people hated XP's looks, people hated Aero, etc.) and 1 part dislike for Microsoft.

Regards,
SB

 

[liolio]

I still think it is a "waste" of an UI, though I'm already used to it. Actually MSFT lends quite a win on me:
I like a lot the full screen approach of their Apps and that includes IE10, me a die hard firefox user have shifted to IE10 :8O: and I did not see that one coming.

Though there is something bothering for MSFT in the long run, the sort of schizophrenia of that OS got me to realize that as a good impersonation of your average users (mostly web browsing, occasional office works) it got me to fully realize that I no longer need Windows. The fact that Windows 8 does come with any form of office helped.
Pretty much I got me to use MSFT cloud service to do some resume/CV work for my job researches.

That is where I got it, I don't need vanilla Windows, windows RT would be good enough for me.
The issue is that whereas I like Metro/Modern UI it has a lot of lacking vs Android.
It is not as customizable, it has lot less apps, ultimately my main email address is a gmail one and... well the Apps MSFT provides don't really cut it (the mail is OKish the calendar is not).

There are obvious lacking to UI, it is static, live tile are not good replacement to Android widget, etc. (not too mention no clock or power level indicator have to call charm menu which is bothering).

So I'm stuck to Windows now because of games and it may change looking at the next generation of console and possibly the gaming market evolving altogether (/others OS providing taking core gaming more seriously). I like MSFT serious wrt security, etc. but simply put that Windows8, if I don't stick to PC gaming, is pretty end the last windows I'll get, Android (or Chrome OS) is simply way better.

Imo MSFT has a massive problem, people no longer need windows and its sibling "office".
Now tablet are selling well, I would not be too surprised with the new low power X86 and ARm SoC coming that offers serious performances (game aside) if it turns into a blood bath pretty fast and with Windows bleeding market share on notebook/ultrabook, extremely fast.
The next Chomebook may have some success as I would no be surprised if a lot of users either through their experience with Windows8, their phone or tablets realize that Windows/Office is no longer needed.

So if Android seems now like a overwhelming force in the mobile realm, I think that its sibling, ChromeOS (if not just android), is to grow its share at fast pace in the near future in the notebook, netbook / laptop segment.

 

[Davros]

I tried chrome o/s on my p.c god it was awful.