Windows 8 Dev build

[Miksu]

So is it true that Windows 8.1's solution to not having a start menu is to put in a start button that simply takes you to the abortion that is the start screen under Metro?

That's true. But the transition is now much less jarring as the Start Screen uses the same background image as the desktop. The Start Screen now feels and looks like an almost transparent layer over the desktop.

The best improvement in the Start Screen is the new search. The search results now include the settings just like the Windows 7's Start Menu search did. So I can type "pow" and see results like "Powershell" and "Power and sleep settings" next to each other.

 

[HMBR]

Also, 8.1 should make the search better. I just loved how in Windows 7 the Start menu search results included the apps and the settings. In Windows 8, if I want to launch the "Network and sharing center", I first type "Netw" and get "No apps" result, after which I must click the Settings-button where I have ~30 matches. The 8.1 should integrate these two again.

that's a very welcome change, it's probably the main problem I have with Windows 8 interface after 1 year of usage.


the installed programs showing only on "all apps" first is also good.

So is it true that Windows 8.1's solution to not having a start menu is to put in a start button that simply takes you to the abortion that is the start screen under Metro? If so... well that's shit.

that's really an useless change, to launch the start screen I normally press the win key...
also Windows 8 would show a button or icon when you move the mouse almost where the start button used to be, and if you right click it it gives you a lot of options.


honestly, I don't care about the start menu, but I really think MS should add the option, because I see a lot of negative reactions just towards this aspect... MS should listen to their customers a little more I guess...

for me the advantages over Win 7 far outweigh this sort of thing.

 

[sebbbi]

For me the most important feature in Win 8.1 is the proper scaling support (for high DPI displays). I pin all my programs. I don't use start menu for anything else than (text) searching. And the search functionality is also improved for Win 8.1. Another important thing in Windows 8 in general is the much lower OS memory usage. Many users have reported that it made their low memory computers (netbooks with 1 GB of memory) run much smoother than with Win 7. Win 8 is a more future proof OS if you are considering buying a new Ultrabook that doesn't support memory upgrade. This is especially true for those 4 GB models. And the 8 GB models tend to be over 1500$ in price (and 12-16 GB is not often available), so for that kind of commitment, any extra leeway in memory is welcome. And 8.1 improves battery life compared to Win 7 as well, especially on Haswell processors (by supporting the new power saving states).

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Another important thing in Windows 8 in general is the much lower OS memory usage. Many users have reported that it made their low memory computers (netbooks with 1 GB of memory) run much smoother than with Win 7. Win 8 is a more future proof OS if you are considering buying a new Ultrabook that doesn't support memory upgrade. This is especially true for those 4 GB models. And the 8 GB models tend to be over 1500$ in price (and 12-16 GB is not often available), so for that kind of commitment, any extra leeway in memory is welcome. And 8.1 improves battery life compared to Win 7 as well, especially on Haswell processors (by supporting the new power saving states).

That's all well and good, but irrelevant for desktops. Mine has 16 gigs of DDR 3@2400, just because it wasn't that expensive (same price I paid for 4 gigs DDR 2 five years ago). I just need the workflow, the actual substance of the GUI to be at least as good as Win 7, not to get in the way like Metro does.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Windows 8 share growth slows

 

[HMBR]

Windows 8 share growth slows

most interesting part

"XP's July user share was 40.6%, the same as in June."

many people just don't want to upgrade.

windows 8 could be the win 7 fanboy dream, but it would still be struggling, with the slowing sales and "good enough" mentality.

 

[UniversalTruth]

many people just don't want to upgrade

People are not that stupid.
If you find them a real reason (need) to upgrade, they will be more than happy to do it

If you point out reasons but despite them people don't want to, then your reasons are not good enough

windows 8 could be the win 7 fanboy dream, but it would still be struggling, with the slowing sales and "good enough" mentality

With phones, however, it is not like this. Everyone is fighting and wants the better smartphone.

So problem is the stupid attitude of Microsoft. They are so arrogant and want to be Nokia number 2

 

[UniversalTruth]

Again, double post, sorry

 

[HMBR]

People are not that stupid.
If you find them a real reason (need) to upgrade, they will be more than happy to do it

If you point out reasons but despite them people don't want to, then your reasons are not good enough



With phones, however, it is not like this. Everyone is fighting and wants the better smartphone.

So problem is the stupid attitude of Microsoft. They are so arrogant and want to be Nokia number 2

what should MS do, they need to re invent windows? they kind of tried that I guess!

smartphones are a different thing, at a different stage of evolution, when the gains are larger all the time, and they have a broader appeal at the moment, as a cool accessory, even a toy...

PC now is dominated by good enough, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing for users... my PC is not very impressive or new, and I was stuck with XP as my main OS until Windows 8 was released (I had 7 as a secondary OS, now XP is my secondary OS).

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

what should MS do, they need to re invent windows? they kind of tried that I guess!

Instead of making desktop Windows better all over, MS made parts of it worse in order to try and make money out of mobile Windows.

All they have to do it allow Metro to be disabled for the desktop, and bring back a proper start menu instead of the joke of a start button that goes to the (already rejected by the consumer base) start menu.

Instead, MS are stubbornly in denial and refuse to give customers what they want - so they reap poor sales from people like me that should have upgraded but found too many usability and workflow barriers in the way.

MS has not only failed to provide me with any compelling reasons to upgrade, they've given me many reasons to stay away from Win 8. That's an opinion that seems to be shared by a lot of potential upgraders.

 

[Kaotik]

Bouncing, I honestly don't understand that attitude, I've found "Metro" to work as far, far better Start menu than the Vista/7 Start menu ever was (which in turn were better than anything before)

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Bouncing, I honestly don't understand that attitude, I've found "Metro" to work as far, far better Start menu than the Vista/7 Start menu ever was (which in turn were better than anything before)

And I found it a big mess that didn't work properly.

 

[Blazkowicz]

People are not that stupid.
If you find them a real reason (need) to upgrade, they will be more than happy to do it

If you point out reasons but despite them people don't want to, then your reasons are not good enough

The single biggest reason to upgrade XP is security, I've begun telling people that soon they will get their mail password stolen, maybe their credit card number with a keylogger, I need to find more examples of bad stuff : web advertisements intercepted and replaced by other advertisements is not necessarily something users will care about. "Your computer will become slow as shit", maybe. But they can have tolerance even for that. A lot of XPs are already hosed.

I bet on Linux Mint 15 Xfce, it at least works on more computers (PAE needed, but not PAE + NX bit), has a new start menu that is a cross between an XP/7 start menu and a "linux" one. "What can I do with it?", people will tell. Well, "use the default apps and maybe install another music player. I can install Google Earth for you and tell you the names of useful programs depending on what you do"

It sucks (can't install any program, latest version or at least easily) but no antivirus and crap and if it works, it keeps working.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Bouncing, I honestly don't understand that attitude, I've found "Metro" to work as far, far better Start menu than the Vista/7 Start menu ever was (which in turn were better than anything before)

Meh, I'm not surprised anymore. People hated Windows XP for a couple years. People hated Vista until Microsoft made a few very minor changes and then people loved Vista (Win7).

I know people that still hate the XP, Vista, Win7 start menus and want the Win9x/Win2k start menu. I know some people that complain about Windows all the time, have a Linux machine, and still use Windows for most of the things that they could do in Linux.

There are just some people that love to complain about anything Microsoft does but still use it because it's better than anything else they can use.

Oh, and I have some friends that only just now upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7 (in the past couple months) due to XP support running out in a little over half a year. And guess what? They hate it because it's not Windows XP.

These are the same people that hated Windows XP because it wasn't Win98 SE. And the same people that hated Win98 SE because it wasn't as fast and lightweight as DOS, even though they hated using DOS.

Regards,
SB

 

[UniversalTruth]

This discussion is getting ridiculous. Better stop it and just enjoy the market penetration numbers. They don't lie

Windows 7 rules

 

[NRP]

I'm not used to using the Metro UI with a mouse/kb, so it feels kind of clunky and unintuitive to me. However, Win8 has some great improvements (overall performance, startup time, etc).

 

[Blazkowicz]

I'm one of those people who hate Windows 7, and hated XP because it was not 98SE. I still ended with XP, where afterall the 9x/2k theme and start menu are available and you can even disable the yellow dog and "autoplay" crap with TweakUI. Dosbox got faster too.

Then I tried upgrading to 7, for security reasons already (2009 was the year of the ZBOT for me, really horrendous professional malware that fights back infesting all executables when you virus-scan it in safe mode). I still hated it after tweaking but there were other options this time!

If I could go back in time I'd install XP 64bit in 2009, and have four+ years of gaming and stuff, it looks like a great OS (NT 5.2 is nice) but I missed the window of opportunity for using it.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Ok, let me make one thing clear.

I hate Windows 8 not because I am stupid and not because of my current mood or my character.
It is simply Microsoft's fault to deliver an operating system which is worse than its predecessor, which otoh works just fine for me and I like it.

When they deliver something better than Windows 7, I would love to be up-to-date in that regard.

Ok?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

My wife asked me why I don't have more gadgets. She has more than me. I pointed out that my deeper understanding of these things means I'm not fooled by marketing and "buy new stuff because it's new". I don't do Twitter or Facebook because it offers nothing of substance to me. I don't upgrade mobile phones every five minutes, I don't buy a new TV every year.

I love new stuff. I'm ususally an early(ish) adopter. I was looking forwards to Win 8. However, unlike a lot of people, I don't think something is better just because it is newer. I want to get a tangible upgrade, I want to see benefits, improvement, I want to see the old problems solved, not just replaced with a different set of problems. I want something to be effecient and give maximum benefit not just the next new thing that corporations want to sell me.

And that's my attitude to Win 8. It's not good enough. It doesn't give enough benefit without giving me new problems. I'm not going to buy it while it's harder and more clunky to use that what I've already got. I'm happy to change the way I do things if the new way is better, but if it's actually worse... then I've got better things to do with my time and money.

MS hasn't convinced me with glossy sign-screens and the promise of touch-screens (which I don't have), and the interface problems have actively repelled me. So I see no benefit to me, and MS lose a sale. Provide me an OS that is useful to me, and I'll buy it. Provide me with a messy mish-mash of tablet and desktop OS squashed together like roadkill, where people tell me to ignore the interface and use a keyboard and command line to make it work, and I'm not interested in going backwards.

 

[Malo]

most interesting part

"XP's July user share was 40.6%, the same as in June."

many people just don't want to upgrade.

windows 8 could be the win 7 fanboy dream, but it would still be struggling, with the slowing sales and "good enough" mentality.

IMO the 40% XP has nothing to do whether Win8 is good or not. If they haven't upgraded to 7 by now then they're just waiting for their old computer to die.