Windows 8 Dev build
- Thread starter deeFive
- Start date
UniversalTruth
Veteran
I feel perfectly fine with my touchkeyboard, touchmouse, and touchpad. So, no, thank you, I don't need my PC or laptop with touchscreen. This is like changing the entire culture of customers and I am definitely not ready nor willing to accept it... There is no need to.
Regarding Vista... because it was mentioned again.
Does anyone have an explanation why Vista was horribly slow on the same hardware which makes Windows 7 fly?
Regarding Vista... because it was mentioned again.
Does anyone have an explanation why Vista was horribly slow on the same hardware which makes Windows 7 fly?
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
You going to buy it for them?
I still think it's too awkward when sitting at a desk with a big screen in front of you. A tablet or notebook on your lap is fine, but reaching up half a meter or more to put fingerprints on your 30 inch monitor? I don't think so.
Oh I agree, I certainly wouldn't have a touchscreen or Windows 8 at all on my desktop, at least for the foreseeable future. I'm very content with Windows 7. But there's so many people, even here, that are just completely discounting Modern UI without any subjective basis, only that it's different and not entirely useful for them on their desktops.
I agree that MS should provide an option for boot to desktop and a similar start menu ala 7, but I have users at work buying laptops that of course come with windows 8 but don't have touchscreens and they hate it. In their minds it's no longer a viable OS to them at all until either MS provide similar layout to 7 or wait till the next big version of Windows that might not be so different. Whereas once touchscreens become more standardized and cost effective (already happening very quickly), those same people might think differently.
I've tested W8 before release on our environments (being head of IT here), and played with it at home somewhat with desktop, laptop and tablet and I definitely did not like it as a normal windows replacement for non-touchscreen use. But I got my Helix a couple of weeks ago to replace my ancient work laptop and it's literally a paradigm shift on interfacing for me. It's the equivalent of going to DOS to Windows/Mouse. Even outside of Modern UI apps I'm heavily shifting between keyboard/touchscreen, rarely using my touchpad and don't have a mouse at all on it. For certain purposes I'm even shifting to pen use.
I agree that MS should provide an option for boot to desktop and a similar start menu ala 7, but I have users at work buying laptops that of course come with windows 8 but don't have touchscreens and they hate it. In their minds it's no longer a viable OS to them at all until either MS provide similar layout to 7 or wait till the next big version of Windows that might not be so different. Whereas once touchscreens become more standardized and cost effective (already happening very quickly), those same people might think differently.
I've tested W8 before release on our environments (being head of IT here), and played with it at home somewhat with desktop, laptop and tablet and I definitely did not like it as a normal windows replacement for non-touchscreen use. But I got my Helix a couple of weeks ago to replace my ancient work laptop and it's literally a paradigm shift on interfacing for me. It's the equivalent of going to DOS to Windows/Mouse. Even outside of Modern UI apps I'm heavily shifting between keyboard/touchscreen, rarely using my touchpad and don't have a mouse at all on it. For certain purposes I'm even shifting to pen use.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
Christ on a bicycle! MS take away the start button from the desktop, and then they try to sell it back to us on a mouse?! And they're calling it as "access to more advanced functionality"?! To borrow a quote, that's some seriously fucked up shit right there. Seriously guys, it's time for Balmer to retire. He's obviously not in control with all this nonsense happening during his watch.
I can only hope it shows that the Start button is on it's way back.
Blazkowicz
Legend
It's exactly like the windows key on the keyboard. But while both enable instant access to the apps, no matter what you are doing or where is your pointer or focus, the start menu could be naturally used with the keyboard while the start screen is made for a mouse or pointing device.
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I still don't understand this discussion. It never left - move your cursor to the left bottom corner and press click, and it's all the same. Just doesn't take up screen space unnecessarily anymore. Most people are just blinded (and annoyed I guess) by having the start menu visible full screen at startup, basically. But if you have a dual screen setup, even that isn't really a bother, as it shows only on one of them.
I bet you can just configure your scroll button click to the left windows key (which also shows/hides the start screen)
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
The Quick Access Menu doesn't do the same as the Start Menu. IIRC, doesn't that just take you back to the Start Screen? Where are my nested program groups and not a load of junk all over the screen?
This is just like all those people saying to ignore the mouse and GUI, and use the keyboard shortcuts instead - not exactly a glowing recommendation for the GUI.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
I wish the Start menu was transparent, without those fugly annoying simple one-colour backgrounds. I wish it gave the options of not occupying the entire desktop and to choose beautiful pictures for backgrounds. The possibilities are countless, but unfortunately those guys at MS lack any sense of creativity, open-mindess and user-friendliness
Did you really use mouse to navigate the Start menu in Windows 7? Instead of just hitting keyboard's Start and then typing calc to launch calculator or whatever?
There's one thing which irritates me in Windows 8's Start screen (when compared to Windows 7's Start menu): The fact that settings and apps are on separate pages. If the 8.1 combines these two, I don't have anything to complain about.
Blazkowicz
Legend
Typing stuff is a useful feature on windows 7 (e.g. typing "windows update") but you also have to use it because the start menu is borked. If the start menu can't be used to discover and launch programs (esp. those you don't know the name or don't know they are available) then you could as well use the run box (win+r) or start programs from a command line window.
"Programs", "Accessories", "Calculator" was fine too on Windows 95 to XP. I would install Classic Shell on Windows 7.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
Yes I did. I still do. It's a Graphical User Interface with a mouse pointer and lots of little icons/menus to click on. Lots of people do this and do the majority of their navigation via mouse.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I agree. I absolutely hate the Win7 and previous start menu now.
I have all the things I need and more on the Win8 Start Screen, something that was absolutely impossible on the old start menu.
If the rumors are true that you'll be able to configure variable sized (smaller) tiles for Win 8.1, then I'll be even happier.
If I never have to use the start menu ever again, I'll be a very happy person.
Then again if I do have to use the start menu on previous versions of Windows then I'll just end up doing what I've been doing, typing what I want to run instead of
I haven't done that with the start menu since WinXP. Ever since Vista, it's just been so much easier to type in the name of the program making the whole GUI rather moot for application launching (except for the programs I had pinned to the Quick Launch toolbar or on the main level of the start menu.
With Win8 I can actually use it like a full on GUI once again, unlike the start menu with the annoying nested folders. Sure I have to scroll to the right for less used programs, but as I mentioned if the rumors are true that you'll be able to have smaller tiles in the start menu in 8.1, then I won't even have to do that. And a little bit of scrolling is a lot more convenient than hunting through 50+ folders (what I had on Win7) trying to find what I'm looking for if I couldn't remember the name.
Between work and pleasure. I'm probably on my PC about 12-14 hours on week days. So, yes, I do very much think the Start screen is better than the old start menu in every possible way.
Regards,
SB
Already if you right click on a tile in Win 8 you can choose a smaller or larger option, and you can move it around to anywhere you like or remove it. So imho already far superior to the Start menu in that sense. But some grouping features and support for recent documents and such could make it even more powerful.
Also, why do I need to use the scrollbar if I have a mouse, and can't just grab and hold the screen anywhere outside the tile to drag it around?
Also, why do I need to use the scrollbar if I have a mouse, and can't just grab and hold the screen anywhere outside the tile to drag it around?
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
If you can remember the name of the program, and it isn't hidden behind some loader or other name.
I'm sorry, I just can't understand people who say the Win8 GUI is better because they use a keyboard instead of the GUI. It's like saying the new flavour of Coke is better because it means you drink water instead.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That's the point I'm making. Win8 start screen is better because I'm using the mouse more with the UI rather than typing in most of the applications I want to launch because they are all in a submenu of the main menu. And quite a few were in a nested folder inside of the sub menu which is inside of the main menu. And some are even in nested folders within the nested folders in the submenu in the main menu, etc. I really do hate the start menu because of all that.
I used the Keyboard in Vista and Win7 because it was MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the Start Menu. In Win8, the start screen makes that mostly moot as I can put just about everything I might want to launch on the main menu organized into blocks with the least used programs off to the right where they are offscreen but easily scrolled to.
As Arwin mentioned, it'll be nice if they also allowed some more customization in how you organize the start screen. And I'll add to that with being able to make them smaller (they are quite large on my 30" screen. As well as allowing me to use more vertical space, I don't need THAT much of a buffer between the top and bottom of my icon groups and the top and bottom of my display.
Either way, for the first time since Windows XP, I have started to use the mouse to directly launch applications again because it is so hugely improved compared to the Start Menu that we've basically had since Win95. Hence the text revolution that Vista brought to the start menu isn't as needed as it was back then.
I absolutely can't stand the start menu anymore when I have to use a Win7 or older machine anymore.
TL: DR
- Win9x and WinXP used mouse in start menu.
- Vista and Win7 typed partial application names (ca for calculator for example) in start menu instead of using mouse.
- Win8 use mouse in start screen, rarely resorting to typing.
- conclusion Win8 made the mouse relevant again for starting programs.
Regards,
SB
UniversalTruth
Veteran
I can pin any program to the Start menu (or to the Taskbar, for that matter) in Windows 7 and can launch the Calculator without typing ca... So , what exactly are you talking about? You can create shortcuts everywhere and use the mouse
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Sure, and what happens when you start to pin 50+ programs to your start menu and task bar?
I currently have 89 programs pinned to my start screen. All easily accessed with the least used ones off to the right where I might have to scroll a tiny bit.In Vista and Win7, I'd have to type the partial names of most of those or else dig through multiple sub folders to access them. Now they are all exactly 1 click away.
Yes, calculator is generally buried under multiple folders in Win7 and prior and not worth taking up a valuable application pin spot on the start menu. Hence typing "ca" then clicking calculator to launch was significantly faster for launching the program.
Regards,
SB
