will PS3's GPU be more modern than PS2's GS for its time?

[version]

GS is a very good and fast chip ,
with present-day technology such as 200M transistor and 500MHZ may make faster GS ,
5 GS on one chip = 20MB eDram , 500MHZ , 80 pixelunits , 600 GB/sec , 1 GigaPoly/s , 40 Gigapixel/s !!!!

if use sony 0,65 process(400M trans 800 MHZ) ,10 GS in one chip = 40MB eDram , 800MHZ , 160 pixelunits , 2 TERAByte/sec , 3.5 GigaPoly/s , 120 Gigapixel/s !!!!

ps3's GPU will be faster ?

In my very rough overview:

Sony's 250nm GPU = GS > RIVA TNT2 family = nVIDIA's 250nm GPU

nVIDIA-Sony 65nm GPU > 10 GS in 65nm one chip

But I'm not sure how nVIDIA-Sony PS3 GPU is better than 10 GS in one chip, at least one thing is sure that Sony determined it's better than a bunch of GS on steroids which they demonstrated in GSCube. Though you can expect there's a trade-off in exchange of raw power, it may be better in cost, in thermal design, in game-related fixed-function efficiency, in developer-friendlyness, I don't know.

raycasting or deferred technology?

if sony-nvidia use 256 rasterizer in chip and 1-2 pixelshaderpipeline
256 rasterizers work fast and write to memory pixel 's attribute(Z,normals, texture,shaderprogramaddress etc...)
after ,gpu read pixels,attributes and send to pixelpipeline to run current shaderprogram

with procedure accessible 6-200 Gigapoly/s

this is possible?

 

[Qroach]

Errr, care to explain why? Is NVIDIA the only company in the whole universe capable to produce a "modern" GPU (Whatever that means)...?

You don't like what I said? well too bad. I simply don't think sony would have been capable of producing a modern graphics chip that could compare to what a company like Nvidia or ATI could produce in the time frame required for PS3.

Logically speaking, even if Sony is capable of doing it, there wouldn't be much benefit to using nvidia. Also don't give me the entire "nvidia is supplying software" arguement, because of course they are supplying software and tools, they do that when supplying tech, just like xbox.

btw, Merry Christmas!

 

[MrSingh]

Sony wasn't working on the in-house GPU, it was Toshiba.

Toshiba was contracted to provide the GPU for PS3, and it was as much a surprise for the folks at Toshiba as it was for everyone else when it was announced that NVIDIA would be providing the GPU. (yes.. the folks at Toshiba are Not Happy (tm) )

 

[hugo]

Sony wasn't working on the in-house GPU, it was Toshiba.

Toshiba was contracted to provide the GPU for PS3, and it was as much a surprise for the folks at Toshiba as it was for everyone else when it was announced that NVIDIA would be providing the GPU. (yes.. the folks at Toshiba are Not Happy (tm) )

Where's your source Mr Singh?
Your yendenay...Indian talk doesn't make sense at all.Why would Sony source the contract to Toshiba when it has adequate resources to build a GPU in the very first place(based on their experience with the GS).After all Nvidia did say that they were already working on the project for some time.

However their decision to go with Nvidia was clearly understandable since they were the experts in the graphics arena.Sony wouldn't have went with some unproven GPU designer like Toshiba.They can handle it all by themselves if they wanted to.How do you know that the Toshiba camp weren't happy about this?If you did have information about their Sony-Toshiba GPU development why weren't you the first to break the Sony-Nvidia alliance news to us?

Here's an OT Q.Does ATI employ lots of Indians as their engineers and PR officers?I know Nvidia does not.

 

[Vince]

If you did have information about their Sony-Toshiba GPU development why weren't you the first to break the Sony-Nvidia alliance news to us?

And so the argument falls. How do you know he didn't call it -- many here have been speculating on this in PMs for sometime, based off a few sources. And you never ask someone how they know something, tact man, tact.

 

[hugo]

If you did have information about their Sony-Toshiba GPU development why weren't you the first to break the Sony-Nvidia alliance news to us?

And so the argument falls. How do you know he didn't call it -- many here have been speculating on this in PMs for sometime, based off a few sources. And you never ask someone how they know something, tact man, tact.

You don't speculate when you have concrete sources to prove.If someone has access to insight news about SCEI like this you should already know about the Nvidia-Sony GPU deal in the first place.No one in this forum was able to confirm this until the offcial announcement was made.

I'll take what this guy said as just pure assumption.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20041207PR207.html

Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated (SCEI) and Nvidia announced today that they have been working together to develop the custom graphics processing unit (GPU) for SCEI ‘s next-generation computer entertainment system, according to a joint press release.

The collaboration between SCEI and Nvidia includes chip development, and a variety of graphics development tools and middleware for content creation, stated Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO, Sony Corporation, and president and Group CEO, SCEI.

SCEI will use the jointly-developed GPU with the recently-announced Cell processor to power its next-generation entertainment systems. The Cell processor is being co-developed by IBM, Sony Group and Toshiba, and is a multicore chip comprising a 64-bit Power processor core and multiple synergistic processor cores, according to a November 29 press release. Cell is optimized for compute-intensive workloads and broadband rich media applications, including games, movies and other forms of digital content, the press release stated.

SCEI and Nvidia are working under a broad, multi-year, royalty-bearing agreement.

The custom GPU will be manufactured at Sony Group’s Nagasaki Fab2 as well as at OTSS (the joint fabrication facility of Toshiba and Sony), the press release explained.


Toshiba hasn't been left out in this.Their OTSS plant does have access to this GPU technology as well so you can't rule them out from being involved in the development of the GPU.So why would they be not happy when they can pick up new things also with the team?

 

[Vince]

You don't speculate when you have concrete sources to prove.If someone has access to insight news about SCEI like this you should already know about the Nvidia-Sony GPU deal in the first place.No one in this forum was able to confirm this until the offcial announcement was made.

You asked why he didn't state this was going to happen before it was made public if he knew, what you don't know is that he did state as much AFAIK. Try thinking about what I'm inferring before just firing back a responce.

And OTSS is a joint venture, Toshiba really don't have much of a choice then to go along with Sony on this one for a number of reasons, their in too deep in semiconductors with Sony to back-out. This doesn't mean that Fujita is happy with the SNE decision though.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony wasn't working on the in-house GPU, it was Toshiba.

Toshiba was contracted to provide the GPU for PS3, and it was as much a surprise for the folks at Toshiba as it was for everyone else when it was announced that NVIDIA would be providing the GPU. (yes.. the folks at Toshiba are Not Happy (tm) )

I do not think that SCE switched to nVIDIA to piss Toshiba off, but I certainly want to know more about the Toshiba side of things.

How close were they to be done ? How fast was their solution ? Etc...

 

[Megadrive1988]

It's interesting to know that Toshiba had designed or were designing a GPU for PS3. in the past, Sony did the graphics chips for their systems. PS1, PS2 and PSP.

whereas Toshiba provided much of the design for the PS2 CPU and Sony did the GS themselves, or pretty much themselves.


I too would like to know more about the PS3 GPU solution that was in development by Toshiba. did it follow in the footsteps of PS2' GS? was it more like a PC GPU, or what. and could elements of the Toshiba GPU still end up in the Nvidia GPU for PS3?

 

[MrSingh]

I do not think that SCE switched to nVIDIA to piss Toshiba off, but I certainly want to know more about the Toshiba side of things.

How close were they to be done ? How fast was their solution ? Etc...

check your MSN.

 

[ultimate_end]

Sony wasn't working on the in-house GPU, it was Toshiba.

Toshiba was contracted to provide the GPU for PS3, and it was as much a surprise for the folks at Toshiba as it was for everyone else when it was announced that NVIDIA would be providing the GPU. (yes.. the folks at Toshiba are Not Happy (tm) )

:?

 

[Fafalada]

How about you tell me your MSN too MrSingh

 

[nelg]

Here is a link to an article in regards to Toshiba’s involvement ‘Cell’ but no specifics that they were doing the GPU.

Toshiba's forthcoming Cell processor will lead to a "Cell World" of new products, Masashi Muromachi, president and chief executive officer of Toshiba's semiconductor company, said on Thursday. The Cell chip will power Sony Computer Entertainment's PlayStation 3 game console, among other products........

 

[3dcgi]

Here's an OT Q.Does ATI employ lots of Indians as their engineers and PR officers?I know Nvidia does not.

I don't know what you mean by lots, but I'd assume most tech companies in the states employ a number of Indians, Nvidia included. Many folks from India come to the US for grad school and stay here to work after they graduate.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I do not think that SCE switched to nVIDIA to piss Toshiba off, but I certainly want to know more about the Toshiba side of things.

How close were they to be done ? How fast was their solution ? Etc...

check your MSN.

my MSN is supergrafx@hotmail.com

I'd love to know too

 

[Panajev2001a]

How about you tell me your MSN too MrSingh

Hey, there are enough muscles on Singh for the both of us .

 

[Panajev2001a]

I do not think that SCE switched to nVIDIA to piss Toshiba off, but I certainly want to know more about the Toshiba side of things.

How close were they to be done ? How fast was their solution ? Etc...

check your MSN.

Did... nothing there ... well, I hope the answer will be "yet" .

 

[fxtech]

hey , anyone know something that i dont know ?

my mail fxtech@tiscalinet.it

 

[Brimstone]

Toshiba hasn't been left out in this.Their OTSS plant does have access to this GPU technology as well so you can't rule them out from being involved in the development of the GPU.So why would they be not happy when they can pick up new things also with the team?

Toshiba, the company thrown out into the cold by the Playstation 3. No HD-DVD disc format and no CELL based GPU after years of research.

 

[StarShoe]

Somebody please tell me more about the Toshiba ps3 gpu too.

Darkmorph@hotmail.com