will PS3's GPU be more modern than PS2's GS for its time?
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
Brimstone said:
Proof?
The HD-DVD one is true though.But it's merely a rivalry between the next generation media standards.It's got nothing to do with Toshiba's semiconductor department.The whole point was brought up in another thread before to stir things up.You are sure to spot this topic in one of those Xbox fan forums.
Your wishfull thoughts filled with fanboyism can really wander.
Toshiba has never ventured into commercial high end GPUs except for mobile products and the consumer market.It doesn't make sense that they were working on one and forcing Sony into buying it.The business world doesn't work that way.You make a product based on your customer's requestnot based on your own decision.SCEI does not need it anyway since they have their own graphics department.More so I wouldn't believe Toshiba was that stupid either to have come forward and suggest the idea to Sony.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
I really am doubting the Toshiba-GPU thing.
I believe Sony had one or more of its own designs in the works. ever since they publicly mentioned GS3 in 1999. the GS3 or Visualizer. both one and the same, or two different concepts. by Sony regardless. maybe there was some collaboration between Sony and Toshiba on a GPU, but I doubt Toshiba came up with a GPU on its own for PS3. then again, I admit I could be wrong since I know next to nothing.
I believe Sony had one or more of its own designs in the works. ever since they publicly mentioned GS3 in 1999. the GS3 or Visualizer. both one and the same, or two different concepts. by Sony regardless. maybe there was some collaboration between Sony and Toshiba on a GPU, but I doubt Toshiba came up with a GPU on its own for PS3. then again, I admit I could be wrong since I know next to nothing.
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Megadrive1988 said:
In this case... you "might" be wrong
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3dcgi said:
They just bought a company based in India with about 100 or so developers, but that was mainly on the DTV development side of things.
Vince said:Brimstone said:
Thanks for the insight Deadmeat. Toshiba, the company, is guaranteed volume production at their fabs for both logic and DRAM and they have access to the Cell architecture for their own CE. Yeah, they are really out in the cold.
What DRAM? XDR? I got the impression from from this press release Toshiba thinks highly of DDR II. At this point I question Toshiba's commitment to XDR.
To me it seems Toshiba was into the XDR bandwagon because Sony wanted it for the PS3 and the GPU.
And thanks for the Deadmeat compliment. I wish I was as smart as him. Perhaps this is evidence that the holiday season has brought out a kinder gentler Vince.
Vince and Brimstone, stop bickering back and forth with the insults. It is degrading this thread.
With that said. Toshiba has no right to be bitter about not winning the GPU for PS3. Nvidia is much better equipped to handle such a task and will do a better job of achieving Sony's wants than Toshiba is. I don't care how powerful Toshiba's GPU is/was, I doubt it would be as feature rich or as fast as what Nvidia will come up with.
With that said. Toshiba has no right to be bitter about not winning the GPU for PS3. Nvidia is much better equipped to handle such a task and will do a better job of achieving Sony's wants than Toshiba is. I don't care how powerful Toshiba's GPU is/was, I doubt it would be as feature rich or as fast as what Nvidia will come up with.
jvd said:I dunno sonic . I would be bitter if a big pile of cash wasn't given to me and was given to someone else
It's not like Sony and NVIDIA are going "NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH" at Toshiba.
Toshiba lost the run for the commission to the PS3 GPU, it must be because Sony felt NVIDIA were more suitable for it. In perfect Japanese style, Toshiba will learn and move on. No reason to be bitter. They still have a big chunk in the PS3 development afterall.
ultimate_end
Newcomer
brimstone said:
Oh where to begin?In that quote you seem to have conveniently missed the part about "high-volume consumer applications". No company is likely to use something like XDR RAM for use in such products are they? DDRII is a little cheaper and runs at relatively low voltage, it is also extremely scalable to a point. That point being where DDRII simply runs out of performance potential. That's where XDR comes in. XDR is initially intended for high performance applications such as supercomputers, high-end PCs, game consoles, networks and graphics applications. They will also apparently use it in consumer applications that use Cell processors. All of these are not "high-volume consumer applications" (except for game consoles, which Toshiba obviously don't make). Just because Toshiba doesn't put XDR into every single product they happen to make does not mean that they have no interest in XDR. Pull your head out of your a**.
Also pull your head out of your a** and realise that where Toshiba will profit most from XDR is actually in manufacture. Toshiba is no different to any other memory manufacturing company, such as Samsung and Elpida (just off the top of my head) who produces a wide range of different memories including XDR. DDR memories are currently the most widely used, so it's natural that it would represent the majority of any company's production. But that doesn't stop these companies manufacturing XDR does it? BTW, this production isn't just for PS3 (see above examples), so don't try and pull that argument.
As for the Deadmeat comment, I myself never actually believed for a second that you were Deadmeat (it's all a running joke anyway). But I have followed practically every post that D has made here (and many on other forums) and D doesn't strike me as being particularly bright. His logic is consistantly flawed, almost in a way that seems he is doing it all just for fun. Often, it seems he has a wide knowledge base, but not always and it is in those times that the futility of his arguments become truly apparent. For you to openly praise his "smartness" above your own, when I'm not sure even his close friends would do so (if he actually has any), makes me suspect you do actually in fact have some connection afterall. It's not a good look.
ultimate_end
Newcomer
Sonic said:
I most certainly agree that Toshiba couldn't possibly compete with nVidia for GPU design (other than integrating some manufacturing technologies that SCEI/nVidia has access to anyway), there are no two ways about it. IMHO if PS3 had a Toshiba GPU it would turn out to be an absolute disaster.
What I wish someone would tell me is why did SCEI feel the need to get Toshiba to do it in the first place? I couldn't care less what the supposed specs were, I just want to know exactly what it was that made Toshiba look so attractive. I'm not so narrow minded that I don't want to fill gaps in my knowledge that might need filling. But then, most of us mere humans may never find out the truth and therefore whether there are actually gaps in our knowledge that need filling in the first place.
Well, Toshiba does have some experience in the graphics sector. Not as much as Nvidia but it can be believed that that Toshiba's efforts are better than Sony's own efforts. I guess it all boils down if you believe Sony is capable of making their own GPU for PS3 and Sony clearly felt they aren't up to the task. They went with Toshiba in the beginning for mostly obvious reasons, such as Toshiba's involvement in CELL and the Emotion Engine. It makes clear sense., but Sony is not one to rule out other competitors that would present much better opportunities. That's where Nvidia comes in.
Someone who made a comment about HD-DVD and Toshiba not getting it in PS3 has the completely wrong idea. HD-DVD is a Toshiba developed thing partly, whereas Blue-Ray or however it's spelled is a Sony developed format. Sony will go with their own before anyone else especially considering they will be able to lower the manufacturing costs of such drives considerably faster than others.
Someone who made a comment about HD-DVD and Toshiba not getting it in PS3 has the completely wrong idea. HD-DVD is a Toshiba developed thing partly, whereas Blue-Ray or however it's spelled is a Sony developed format. Sony will go with their own before anyone else especially considering they will be able to lower the manufacturing costs of such drives considerably faster than others.
kenneth9265_3
Newcomer
MrSingh said:Panajev2001a said:
check your MSN.
MrSingh, I would also like to know kenneth9265@hotmail.com
Don't you noticed that Toshiba's notebooks are equipped with Nvidia's GoForce GPUs all these while?It seems that the 2 companies are quite close when it comes to the mobile PC GPU department.Toshiba was one of the first to announce the use of Nvidia's Geforce Go series of GPUs.But they have certain trust between each other not enemies.It's not like they don't know each other.
With this I would like to say Toshiba is not left out in the PS3 GPU effort.They may be probably the ones who had suggested to Sony instead that the GPU should be designed by Nvidia from their past good experience with Nvidia's products.FYI,the Japanese has always regarded Nvidia GPUs as their prefered choice in their systems.If you're doubting this you can head to most of the the cyber cafes located in Akiba(if you have the chance) and you're sure to spot one in their computers.That's because Nvidia cards are optimised for online games like FFXI.
With this I would like to say Toshiba is not left out in the PS3 GPU effort.They may be probably the ones who had suggested to Sony instead that the GPU should be designed by Nvidia from their past good experience with Nvidia's products.FYI,the Japanese has always regarded Nvidia GPUs as their prefered choice in their systems.If you're doubting this you can head to most of the the cyber cafes located in Akiba(if you have the chance) and you're sure to spot one in their computers.That's because Nvidia cards are optimised for online games like FFXI.
hugo said:
toshiba has zero experience with pc-class graphics hardware development. being a big pc laptops vendor they're prone to aligning themselves with one or another big pc graphics vendor if they want to have a proven graphics subsystem in their laptops.
you surely meant to say 'online games like ffxi are optimised for nvidia cards' : )
bottomline being, i am highly sceptical toshiba would have recommended anybody else if they had the potential gs2 deal in the first place, regardless of how high toshiba thinks of their pc graphics vendor.
So do you think they can compare with the likes of ATI in the next generation console GPU war?I doubt it thus the whole idea of partnering Nvidia was a smart move.They could have the potential to develop the GS2 so does SCEI.Nvidia was the most suitable of the 3.Why would they suggest a plan when they are already comfortable with the Cell development all these while?darkblu said:
No I was refering to online games that are played by the Japaneses,Koreans and Chinese.You didn't read the whole paragraph carefully did you?darkblu said:
darkblu said:
They did not.That could probably be the answer why Sony had to find another suitable partner instead.The Cell project alone took up almost every resources that they had.
hugo said:
depends what you mean by 'the likes of ati' - most pc grahics vendors would have little chances in the console graphics market. luckily ati has artx, so that places them on a bit different gorund. so to answer your question - yes, i do think toshiba can successfully compete with most of the pc-based graphics verndors when it comes to console gpu design.
better price/performance offered by nvidia's new rasterizer? cell eventually turned out to be too pricy to be used for rasterization purposes? and toshiba's version possibly being cell-based? and maybe you should think how come nv turned out to be "the most suitable of the 3" in the very last moment?
japanese, korean and chinese online games should be a very special breed of software then : )
darkblu said:
darkblu said:
Your earlier post mentioned that you're highly sceptical but now you turned it around and say that you think they can compete.Let's say I take your second point which is that Toshiba can compete.Care to explain why Sony switched to Nvidia instead?To piss Toshiba because someone in there wants the PS3 to have a miserable launch?I get it now.
Or was it because Toshiba themselves cannot handle it?If that is so why would they be pissed when it's due to their own fault?Nothing special but the mindset.Notice that SquareEnix's Online games has the motto "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" on them?darkblu said:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/index.shtml
Too bad ATI doesn't.
Cell was always going to have pixel engine of somekind.
I don't think Toshiba is incompetent or anything. My hunch is NV in dire need to replace the loss of income from failing to get Xbox2, most likely outbid Toshiba, thus making PS3 or other cell device cheaper for Sony to produce.
hugo said:
i'm affraid there's been a misunderstanding. the meaning of the above is: 'if toshiba had been originally approached by sony for the development of the gs2' (a premise) then 'toshiba would have hardly given up the deal and recommended another company in their own place' (my opinion based on the above premise). i never meant to, and i didn't imply toshiba was uncapable of developing gs2 for sony.
Care to explain why Sony switched to Nvidia instead? To piss Toshiba because someone in there wants the PS3 to have a miserable launch? I get it now.
read my previous post again. firstly, it has some speculations answering exactly this question of yours (why sony switched), and secondly, it clearly lacks any statements in the sense of 'toshiba couldn't handle it'.
that means that the game was optimised for nv (or at least the marketing department wants us to think so). it doesn't mean that the hw was designed for this game.
