Will Nintendo keep its leadership in joypad design next gen?

[Bohdy]

My favourite controller of this gen would have to be the Wavebird, it is near perfect in most respects. Even the D-pad on those things is better than on the regular controller (not that I use it much). The 64 controller was very <insert naughty word> in contrast though; I mean, one third of it was redundant at all times! Also, the analog stick was terrible.

The S-controller is also quite confortable and a major improvement over the original ("Duke" ) in my opinion.
I always found that one to be uncomfortable for a number of reasons; the pressure required to hold down the triggers was greater than a comfortable amount, the buttons were 'pointy' and would dig into your fingers after a long time playing, and they were unintuitive. Also, the feedback is overstated to the point where it is annoying, rather than the subtle feedback I prefer.

I don't have much to say about the PS2 controller... its just "fine".

 

[Tagrineth]

I blame "not using it enough yet" or just not enough playing Street Fighter games in your life. Kicking 'em out constantly is no sweat. (I'd apply your ratio to misses as opposed to successes. I screw up by mistiming them, not messing up the commands.) Takes longer to learn the idiosyncracies of a game, or get used to it after not having played for a while, really. Controller hardly gets in the way at all.

Thanks for reminding me about his Blade Dash, by the way... Forgot about that move.

[quote-"Almasy"]You must suck then.

I never had any troubles with it, and most of my moves were pulled off nicely with it. I also really like that the directions are differentiated, which avoids accidentally pressing a direction instead of another.[/quote]

If you'd re-read what I wrote, I can do Richter's Blade Dash (much harder than Soul Steal) and even Maria's Invulnerability (Up, full circle starting with back, hold up 2 secs, down, A/C) with maybe 99% success, and this is on the lower frame rate, generally considered technically inferiour Saturn version. PS1's digital pad SUCKS.

Then again, it could just be SOTN, because in Guilty Gear X2 I could do most Overdrives on command, using my MadCatz third-party PS1 controller (has a Saturn-esque discpad).

 

[UltraMario]

I hate triggers all I got to say

 

[cthellis42]

If you'd re-read what I wrote, I can do Richter's Blade Dash (much harder than Soul Steal) and even Maria's Invulnerability (Up, full circle starting with back, hold up 2 secs, down, A/C) with maybe 99% success, and this is on the lower frame rate, generally considered technically inferiour Saturn version.

Well, if you reread what you wrote, you said you could do Richter's Blade Dash 1/40 times, which reads to me as 4 times LESS often than Soul Steal, where you said 1/10. If that's not what you meant, then you'll have to forgive, but that's the way it reads. (Doing moves on the Saturn "constantly" was given, but aside the point. I haven't done any of Maria's moves--not having the game--but looking at them I can't see any issues with them. Alucard has complex-enough moves, and once you've played enough Street Fighter just about ANYTHING seems easy. )

Offhand I'd also be hard-pressed to say that Up + Quarter-Circle Forward is "much harder than" B + Half-Circle Back + F. If Richter has another "Blade Dash" move in the Saturn version we might be talking about different things, but U+QCF is the only one I know of.

Meanwhile, I imagine the difference mainly comes down to which controller you use most and possible game sensitivity/timing differences between the two versions. Play SotN the majority of the time and you'll have troubles moving to Dracula X and vice-versa.

 

[vrecan]

the last two controllers from the big N have been so horrible I couldn't even use them and had to sell my systems so to say they have the "lead" would be queit laughable!

I would take the original giant Xbox controller over it anyday (not the jap version)! Atleast my hands didn't ache for days after using it and the anolog sticks are actually usable!

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Xbox Type-S is the best controller in my opinion. I wish the white and black buttons were still up top, but otherwise it's pretty much perfect. I don't mind the Gamecube pad, but Nintendo might want to consider using the camera stick to look instead of useless things like R-look in Metroid Prime. Great controllers are useless if they aren't used properly by developers.

 

[wazoo]

Xbox Type-S is the best controller in my opinion. I wish the white and black buttons were still up top, but otherwise it's pretty much perfect. I don't mind the Gamecube pad, but Nintendo might want to consider using the camera stick to look instead of useless things like R-look in Metroid Prime. Great controllers are useless if they aren't used properly by developers.

you are mixing gameplay decision with hardware choices.

 

[Tagrineth]

Well, if you reread what you wrote, you said you could do Richter's Blade Dash 1/40 times, which reads to me as 4 times LESS often than Soul Steal, where you said 1/10. If that's not what you meant, then you'll have to forgive, but that's the way it reads. (Doing moves on the Saturn "constantly" was given, but aside the point. I haven't done any of Maria's moves--not having the game--but looking at them I can't see any issues with them. Alucard has complex-enough moves, and once you've played enough Street Fighter just about ANYTHING seems easy. )

Yes, I've pulled off Richter's Blade Dash about twice on the PS1 version, out of countless attempts. It's irritating. I fucking beat Galamoth using him on the Saturn. :|

Offhand I'd also be hard-pressed to say that Up + Quarter-Circle Forward is "much harder than" B + Half-Circle Back + F. If Richter has another "Blade Dash" move in the Saturn version we might be talking about different things, but U+QCF is the only one I know of.

If you're talking about Blade Dash, that isn't the movement. Blade Dash is Up + 270º starting back.

If you're talking about Maria, the Invulnerability is Up + FULL circle starting back + Hold up 2 secs + Down.

Meanwhile, I imagine the difference mainly comes down to which controller you use most and possible game sensitivity/timing differences between the two versions. Play SotN the majority of the time and you'll have troubles moving to Dracula X and vice-versa.

I finished SotN twice as Alucard and twice as Richter (first completion, then again for speed).

Within 30 seconds of using Richter in the Saturn version I was blade dashing with no effort at all. And this was also pretty soon after getting the system.

And now, trying the PS1 version again, I _still_ can't do it reliably, though it's a little better with my MadCatz pad.

 

[PARANOiA]

My favourite controller of this gen is actually the original XBox controller. Using a PS2 controller feels awkward when the analogue sticks are required, and I feel like my fingers are doing odd things when I touch the GC controller.

I was shocked at people complaining about it, actually. It's just the right size. My only beef is that the black and white buttons are hard to reach in a firefight.

I personally think the biggest innovation in a controller ever was the VMU. Having that little screen was completely useful in games where you need to see stuff you didn't want a local opponent to see. Plus, it was cool being able to remove it and play mini games in my room. Can you imagine if they made a Final Fantasy for Dreamcast, and let you master materia (for example) on the train on the way to work? Mmmmm.

The disappointment with this was the battery life sucked - and was drained when you had the VMU plugged in to the console. If the battery life was better, and didn't drain except when unpowered, it would have been the best thing since sliced bread.

Remember the Playstation copy of it that never took off (at least in Australia.)

Taking out the jewel on the Xbox controller and replacing it with a VMU style device (or maybe even a small LCD) would be very innovative.

 

[cthellis42]

If you're talking about Blade Dash, that isn't the movement. Blade Dash is Up + 270º starting back.

Lots of people define this lots of different ways, it seems, but the only commands you need to hit during is U, D, and DF to get the dash of. 3/4 circle from U to F will do it. U + QCF will do it. And U, D, DF will do it, too. Easy as sin. I was just downstairs running them off to make sure.

&lt;shrugs> Mebbe your controller has seen too much warfare in its day and given up the ghost? Could be some versional differences as well, but this move simply flies out.

If you're talking about Maria, the Invulnerability is Up + FULL circle starting back + Hold up 2 secs + Down.

I was talking about Soul Steal, since that was the move you were comparing Richter's blade dash to.

 

[Tagrineth]

Lots of people define this lots of different ways, it seems, but the only commands you need to hit during is U, D, and DF to get the dash of. 3/4 circle from U to F will do it. U + QCF will do it. And U, D, DF will do it, too. Easy as sin. I was just downstairs running them off to make sure.

I'll try them later, I guess.

Point is, rotation on the original pad is awful.

&lt;shrugs> Mebbe your controller has seen too much warfare in its day and given up the ghost? Could be some versional differences as well, but this move simply flies out.

My pad was bought new about a year ago and SOTN was the first non-RPG I played on the thing. I have the Greatest Hits SOTN, btw.

If you're talking about Maria, the Invulnerability is Up + FULL circle starting back + Hold up 2 secs + Down.

I was talking about Soul Steal, since that was the move you were comparing Richter's blade dash to.

Hehehe. Maria uses the SoulSteal movement, too... she has this evil blue dragon spell which makes her invulnerable (like practically everything else in her arsenal) and creates this huge blue dragon that does like 160 a second to anything it's touching - and it lasts for a pretty long time. I can do that 99% of the time on the Saturn, too.

 

[cthellis42]

Point is, rotation on the original pad is awful.

&lt;shrugs> I'm still going with "point is, you get used to it." When I switch back to a Street Fighter game on the Dreamcast or Saturn--or going from regular gamepad to another gamepad vendor's design--it takes me a while to get used to things, and it will always be "less comfortable." Heck, I can whip out moves in the arcade that I can't do on a custom-built arcade stick using the same controls as arcade machines simply because I'm not standing, nor have the same angle to the controls, and the console arcade stick will move... Every time I end up switching what I hit and how, how I hold the controller, how well I perform moves... The one I always use BEST and the one I sink back into using easiest is always the one I use MOST.

I have the Greatest Hits SOTN, btw.

As do I, though I first played on the original release. Read the same FAQs then to pick up the move, and hasn't changed now. (Always did it U, D, DF, F. I didn't do any specific testing until talking about it in this thread, though, and on the GH version I can hit U, D, and DF very slowly [for console direction input at least, so I'm talking about 1/4-1/2 second intervals] and specifically and get it off.)

Hehehe. Maria uses the SoulSteal movement, too... she has this evil blue dragon spell which makes her invulnerable (like practically everything else in her arsenal) and creates this huge blue dragon that does like 160 a second to anything it's touching - and it lasts for a pretty long time.

Yeah, I noticed. ^_^ Really need to pick up the Saturn version at some point, as it overall seems cooler.

Will have to get used to the gamepad, though...