Will Nintendo keep its leadership in joypad design next gen?
- Thread starter Grall
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Gubbi said:GameCube's controller is too small for me (and guess most other adults) resulting in cramps (similiar to PS-1 Playstation Paws)
I find its size is OK, only problem is the Z trigger, it's almost like it doesn't exists to me ^^
About the cramps things.... well it happen with every pad, and it's the sign that you must stop playing, so it's pretty usefull
(for the record I'm 2 meters tall, so I've huge hands.)
Qroach said:
Well, I already knew you were weird Quincy, this just cements my belief!
Light? Weak? Sorry, don't see what you're complaining about at all. The plastic Nintendo uses certainly isn't cheap, and the way the top and bottom half fit together is just superb. Very nice worksmanship there.Oh but that's a load of bollocks! They pass Ninty by sticking on two more shoulder buttons and a D-pad with rotten diagonals? Very curious design choices there I have to say. The dual analogs was such a predictable copy-cat move, and it doesn't even work very well. Controlling basically anything with dual analog sticks is initially a very confusing proposition (for some, always so I'm willing to wager), and doesn't really have any advantage at all over an analog/digital setup. After all, nobody complains that keyboards aren't analog when playing FPS games.
Only reason GC has two sticks is because PS2 has two sticks, but Nintendo made the correct design choice by putting one stick in a primary position and the other stick in a secondary.
It was HARDLY any greater leap of thought to come up with that idea, I'm sure you'll agree. Sticking on a second analog stick when Nintendo already pioneered the idea...
Oh, how would you know that huh?
Since joypads *without* any analog front buttons give people CTS, it's definitely not a big stretch of the mind to reach the conclusion a joypad where the user is required to press even harder on a button will be even more likely to damage hands.
*G*
The fine, that YOU don't see what I'm complaining about, It really doesn't matter to me as this is all subjective. I find the nintendo made gamecube controllers to feel way too light compared to the playstation controller and xbox controller S. It actually IS lighter then the other mentioned controllers. It really does feel like cheap or recycled plastic IMO. I picked up a N-gon controller and it feels much better.
Excuse me? Well I guess that nintendo isnt the first console manufacturer to have an anolog capable controller, that should also be bollocks?
I didn't say they were "good" analog stucks, so far I think xbox has the best analog stiicks, but I said it was a nice addition which has become a standard.
Whatever nintendo's reason for changing it , it wasn't the point of what I was saying. I said having two analog sticks was a nice addition that SONY created. That's all I said.
I wasn't talking about greater leaps. I was saying that overall the PSone/ps2 controller made a good number of improvements over previous generations controllers. Two analog sticks was a nice addition, and button placement is a good one that I think the gamecube controller is bad for. Nintendo didn't pioneer the anolog stick. As mentioned earlier in this thread other contorllers exsisted before the n64 that also contained analog capabilities, but in an analog PAD form.
How do I know it? How do you know it? Show me proof that this is the case. I know a lot of people that use these contorllers everyday and haven't had any sort of wrist problems. In fact, I've never met a single person that has had wrist problems while playing video games. I certainly haven't see any proof to back that statement up about analog buttons giving peopel carpol tunnel syndrome.
You know what? these forums were closed because of the arguments started in threads like this. Some fans just couldn't resist jumping down anothers throat over comments that are purely subjective. Besides, you might have girl sized hands for all i know, so that would kinda invalidate the weight comments. Grall lighten up, it's just controllers
Bollocks is a cool word.
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
I think next gen wil be more 'wireless', 'analogue', 'ergonomic' and 'class design'.
The PS2 is a good 'generic' controller IMO. Lots of buttons, good for any genre. But it is the least intuitive of the three, and the least comfortable. I love the S-controller.. except for the face buttons. Great for a game like Halo, where you really don't use the face buttons for primary functions. GCN is probably tied with S-controller as my favorite pad. It's by far the most comfortable, and the button placement and shapes make it's use very intutive. I never have to look down at the controller while Im playing. On the down side.. it doesn't have enough buttons, and I really dislike the grooves around the analog sticks. I also don't like the digital click. It's great when used right.. but most devs just use it as a single button, and at a certain point in the initial pull. I have a bad habit of holding the button down by the digital click and have to think about releasing the thing all the way to push it in again sometimes.
anyway.. that paragraph is kind of a mess.. but Im quickly posting from work.
anyway.. that paragraph is kind of a mess.. but Im quickly posting from work.
I think it just depends on the kind of game you're playing..
The Xbox controller is king for Racers and FPSs, the PS2 is king at fighters and 'generic' stuff, and the GC is king for its games.
After owning both systems, I cringe everytime I have to play an FPS or Racer on the PS2, simply because I love my analog triggers
The Xbox controller is king for Racers and FPSs, the PS2 is king at fighters and 'generic' stuff, and the GC is king for its games.
After owning both systems, I cringe everytime I have to play an FPS or Racer on the PS2, simply because I love my analog triggers
I believe that Nintendo really has some great ideas in terms of ergonomics, no one can surpass them in that field. GCN´s controller is the most comfortable controller out of all next gen ones. It feels really smooth and natural, that´s something that has been a constant with Nintendo since SNES.
However, they did seem to forget about practicality with N64. Losing the D-Pad+L button/Analog Stick+Z button wasn´t a good idea in the least, and GCN´s strange, unpractical button placement, plus the D-Pad intended for 4 year olds weren´t either. The button at the end of the shoulder ones is nothing more than a gimmick too, IMO.
Sony has a bit of learning to do in terms of ergonomics, however, it has the most well-rounded design. The D-Pad is precise and responsive, the analog buttons are perfect for most of the genres out there, and are comfortable and easy to use. Fighters, RPGs, action games, you name it, 90% of the time PS2´s pad will be great for the job.
Analog sticks could be more precise though, and perhaps moving one a bit above the other wouldn´t hurt. Also, turning the R2/L2 buttons into triggers wouldn´t be a bad idea. Redesigning it for the sake of ergonomics would also be a nice addition too.
Note: Grall, Qroach do you remember that endless bickering was one of the reasons the admin closed this forum?
However, they did seem to forget about practicality with N64. Losing the D-Pad+L button/Analog Stick+Z button wasn´t a good idea in the least, and GCN´s strange, unpractical button placement, plus the D-Pad intended for 4 year olds weren´t either. The button at the end of the shoulder ones is nothing more than a gimmick too, IMO.
Sony has a bit of learning to do in terms of ergonomics, however, it has the most well-rounded design. The D-Pad is precise and responsive, the analog buttons are perfect for most of the genres out there, and are comfortable and easy to use. Fighters, RPGs, action games, you name it, 90% of the time PS2´s pad will be great for the job.
Analog sticks could be more precise though, and perhaps moving one a bit above the other wouldn´t hurt. Also, turning the R2/L2 buttons into triggers wouldn´t be a bad idea. Redesigning it for the sake of ergonomics would also be a nice addition too.
Note: Grall, Qroach do you remember that endless bickering was one of the reasons the admin closed this forum?
You know, that is another thing regarding ergonomics. I'm left handed and have no problems when it comes to games. I'm not entirely sure game pads are even meant for a specific hand designation but I always felt comfortable with my left hand controlling the character or whatever object (d-pad, analog stick) and my right hand pushing the face buttons. Maybe it's different for other lefties. Either way for me Nintendo knows what its doing when it comes to controllers. The concepts are out of this world and wacky it seems but they do my hands justice everytime I pick up and play, regarding the GCN controller.
Well, southpaws don't really have much of a choice, so it's another one of those "you get used to anything, eventually" deals. And since it's been that way since the beginning of gamepads, you've likely had a long time to get used to it.
Almasy said:
You don't really lose half the pad, and even without the cross and L, you have 9 digital buttons and a stick - for comparison, the original PS1 controller has 10 buttons and a crosspad, and the DualShock has 12 buttons (two new buttons = 'stick click') and two analogues... the difference being, with N64, you could use all 8 buttons without really losing anything (well, I exaggerate - it was a bit hard using A/B and C up/right at the same time), while on the PS1 you lose four buttons if you use the right stick, and just like with the N64 you technically can only use either the crosspad OR the stick.
Oh, and for everyone who complains about the Z trigger on the GCN: Keep your index finger on Z, and your middle finger on R. It takes a short while to get used to using the middle finger for R instead of index, but once you get used to pulling the other finger, the Z button is no longer a problem at all. Especially nice if you're using the C stick, as the lower thumb makes up for having the fingers further forward.
No, the D-pad isn't precise and responsive.
In Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, I can do Soul Steal 1/10 tries, and Richter's Blade Dash like 1/40 tries.
On the Saturn version, with a LOWER FRAME RATE, on the Analogue pad (not the famously great digital pads!), I use both constantly.
And one last thing, Xbox's analogue sticks suck... the orignal controller's sticks have no precision at all, and feel like they have half the movement range of Nintendo's sticks... the Controller-S is a little better in that regard, but they still just don't feel that precise - to me, TimeSplitters 2 handles much better on the infamous 'C knob' than HALO does on either Xbox pad.
Tagrineth said:
I blame "not using it enough yet" or just not enough playing Street Fighter games in your life.
Kicking 'em out constantly is no sweat. (I'd apply your ratio to misses as opposed to successes. I screw up by mistiming them, not messing up the commands.) Takes longer to learn the idiosyncracies of a game, or get used to it after not having played for a while, really. Controller hardly gets in the way at all.Thanks for reminding me about his Blade Dash, by the way... Forgot about that move.
Never tried the xbox pad, but heard a lot of bad things about it (otherwise they would not have released the S pad).
Comparing the ps2 and GC pad, I think the ps2 is the most universal/generic pad. It can be used for any games but I spend half of the time looking at it because of too many buttons. The GC pad feels much more comfortable WHEN you make your game around it and the minimum number of buttons make things easier (and make some ps2 conversions horrible of course). Playing hours of Metroid Prime without thinking about thr pad was a joy.
Comparing the ps2 and GC pad, I think the ps2 is the most universal/generic pad. It can be used for any games but I spend half of the time looking at it because of too many buttons. The GC pad feels much more comfortable WHEN you make your game around it and the minimum number of buttons make things easier (and make some ps2 conversions horrible of course). Playing hours of Metroid Prime without thinking about thr pad was a joy.
Tagrineth said:
Tag, I know you are a big Nintendo fan, but you just can´t deny that the kind of joypad Nintendo used in the N64/GCN wasn´t very practical. A three prong design will result in more costly manufacturing, losing space on the pad, making it bigger than necessary, and losing a button and a pad isn´t an intelligent design.
On PS/PS2/Xbox and even GCN, the D-pad and A Stick are an inch apart or so, without needing to change your hand position, so you can´t draw a parallel between those two controllers.
They´re triumphs of ergonomical design, that´s the greatest thing about Nintendo controllers, they always feel natural. However, practicality has become an issue with Nintendo and their controllers, IMO.
Even if it is possible to get used to the button, the fact that it has to be thought of as a problem that must be solved in the very first place speaks for itself about the unpractivality of the Z-button placement.
No, the D-pad isn't precise and responsive.
In Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, I can do Soul Steal 1/10 tries, and Richter's Blade Dash like 1/40 tries.
On the Saturn version, with a LOWER FRAME RATE, on the Analogue pad (not the famously great digital pads!), I use both constantly.
You must suck then.
I never had any troubles with it, and most of my moves were pulled off nicely with it. I also really like that the directions are differentiated, which avoids accidentally pressing a direction instead of another.
It is funny though, that on SNES the easiest moves to pull off for me were fireballs and shoryukens were a bit more difficult, but on PSX the situation is reversed. Wierd.
