Will Nintendo keep its leadership in joypad design next gen?

[Grall]

The first useable joypad came with the NES. No, Intellivision don't really count. SNES upped the ante considerably, as did N64. Current consoles are just minor evolutionary changes, but still, the Nintendo heritage in all of them is unmistakable (*cough* XB right stick placement; button colors & naming scheme *cough*).

What can we expect from the 2005 (06?) generation in the way of design and features? Force feedback? MEMS accelerometers? These have been suggested by others in another thread. Likely, consoles will stick to the proven and much more accessible joypad-method of control rather than the more abstract mouse + keyboard or such, but how much further can this concept really go?

Will Nintendo bring back the expansion socket they pioneered with N64? Will we see more novel uses of analog buttons? PS2 games generally seem to avoid using that functionality, perhaps because of ergonomic issues. Can next-gen controllers get around this?

Okay, so this is a post asking for a whole bunch of speculation, but speculation can be fun! So, let's get back to work guys, and let's keep it clean this time!


*G*

 

[Paul]

The evolution of the controller is interesting. It evolved because simply it had to.

If we were still playing video games on atari class hardware, meaning the depth of the games were the same, there would be no reason for the controller to have evolved into what it is now.

Why would a pong depth game require 4 face buttons or shoulder buttons? Exactly my point.

The rise of the 3D based game engine and infact a advanced 2D game( SNES compared to ATARI type games) required the need for multiple face buttons because the games got that much more complex.

What other leaps in terms of game complexity can come 2005/6 is unknown, we have 3D already, we can make a game as complex gameplay wise as we want(flying game, sports, free world) so the NEED for more buttons I think won't be there come 06.

So in conclusion, the evolution of the controller will be based on what games evolve into. Obviously with a game as complex as MGS2 you don't play using a 2 button controller.

 

[mech]

Don't you mean regain its leadership?

This generation Nintendo really dropped the ball - they tried to play catch up with Sony and Microsoft, and provide analogue buttons, but this was eventually scrapped. The one "innovation" was that when you push all the way down on the triggers, they click. Um, wow.

Joypads have barely evolved recently... the one major update this gen was "analogue buttons", something that's seen a lot more use on PS2 than Xbox IMO, but Xbox implemented it better.

And yeah, in my opinion the Gamecube has the worst controller this generation. After hearing the nintendo sites rave about it for so long, I was incredibly disappointed by it. Xbox's is definitely the most comfortable, but PS2's is more practical and hence my favourite.

The one thing Nintendo did do well was the Wavebird - it works so flawlessly, it makes me want all my next gen consoles to have decent wireless controllers. So much better than wired controllers.

 

[Tagrineth]

This generation Nintendo really dropped the ball - they tried to play catch up with Sony and Microsoft, and provide analogue buttons, but this was eventually scrapped. The one "innovation" was that when you push all the way down on the triggers, they click. Um, wow.

The clicking triggers are handy when they're actually used... first off, they're confirmation that you've reached 100% pressure (something hard to tell on PS2... for example, strafing in Enter the Matrix requires way too much force to get running), and second, games that actually USE the feature, while limited, do get some good use out of it... for example, the two Rogue Squadron games. Using them for the S-Foils works really well.

Joypads have barely evolved recently... the one major update this gen was "analogue buttons", something that's seen a lot more use on PS2 than Xbox IMO, but Xbox implemented it better.

And yet the games that actually /use/ the analogue buttons can be counted on one hand.

And yeah, in my opinion the Gamecube has the worst controller this generation. After hearing the nintendo sites rave about it for so long, I was incredibly disappointed by it. Xbox's is definitely the most comfortable, but PS2's is more practical and hence my favourite.

I can understand GCN's being uncomfortable if you have large enough hands to make the Xbox pad comfortable. o.o

 

[Grall]

Mech, you're right not much happened this last gen, though I must say I feel there's no real winner. In my personal view, Nintendo's controller has a slight edge out of sheer ergonomics, it's so damn comfortable to hold, and the analog sticks are damn smooth and very precise, and they DID pioneer the modern joypad.

Nobody's superceeded them, which means they still have the crown. All Sony and MS did was to try and catch up, and that's not such a hard feat when you have a template to work from. The PS2/XB analog buttons are pretty much gimmicks, using them for prolonged periods of times gives the user carpal tunnel syndrome, which is probably why Nintendo dropped that feature in favor of the spring-loaded shoulder buttons - which are much more precise anyway. The clicks at the very bottom is just a bit of extra spice, a nice touch.

D-pad, shoulder buttons, rumbling, analog stick, again and again Nintendo has showed brilliance in input device design. IMO, the real question wether Nintendo fouls the ball or not is NEXT gen, because now it has two real heavy-weight competitors breathing down its neck.

I hope good ol' Shigs and his colleagues pull out all the stops this time and knock everybody's socks off. I'd REALLY like to see force feedback - REAL force feedback - in next-gen controllers. Wireless is totally MEH, because who wants to not be able to play because they've run out of fresh batteries? Also, it creates problems with possible interference from other equipment like wireless networking, keyboards, mice, bluetooth etc etc and also precludes rumbling or force feedback. Wireless joypads is a nice gimmick, but nothing more.


*G*

 

[Tagrineth]

D-pad, shoulder buttons, rumbling, analog stick, again and again Nintendo has showed brilliance in input device design. IMO, the real question wether Nintendo fouls the ball or not is NEXT gen, because now it has two real heavy-weight competitors breathing down its neck.

Just have one comment... Saturn had an analogue capable pad, and that console was -dead- before the N64 arrived on the market... that included analogue shoulders, in fact.

 

[a4164]

Just have one comment... Saturn had an analogue capable pad, and that console was -dead- before the N64 arrived on the market... that included analogue shoulders, in fact.

Are you talking about the 3D pad that premiered with Nights? If so, didn't Nintendo unveal the N64 controller in '95? (I'm actually a little confused about the matter) I always thought Sega's 3D pad was a direct response to the N64's controller.

 

[Qroach]

Grall,

In my personal view, Nintendo's controller has a slight edge out of sheer ergonomics, it's so damn comfortable to hold, and the analog sticks are damn smooth and very precise, and they DID pioneer the modern joypad.

I agree with Mechs' assessment. I find the game cube controller to feel way too light to be confortable. My first impression was that it fellt like it was made with recyled plastic. I too heard gamecube fans say it was the best, but i found the actuators for force feedback to be weak, the over all feel to be light and cheap.

Nobody's superceeded them, which means they still have the crown.

I think sony has passed nintendo with the first playstation controller. Then adding dual analog sticks was a nice addition which has become standard.

The PS2/XB analog buttons are pretty much gimmicks, using them for prolonged periods of times gives the user carpal tunnel syndrome, which is probably why Nintendo dropped that feature in favor of the spring-loaded shoulder buttons - which are much more precise anyway. The clicks at the very bottom is just a bit of extra spice, a nice touch.

I diagree, you're forgetting about the analog trigger on xbox that have just the right amount of resistence. Using the analog buttons certinaly hasn't given any large number of users carpol tunnel syndrome.

 

[jvd]

Nintendo has never lost the controller advantage .

Nintendo vs master system nintnedo hands down

Super nes vs genesis = super nintendo (till sega made the 6 button pad)


N64 vs psone = Psone is just the super ness controller with fins and extra buttons and the n64 controller worked awsome for 3d games .

Gamecube vs ms vs ps2 . Ps 2 controller is just more of the same. Ms contoller was way to big. Gamecube controller was easy to use .

 

[a4164]

N64 reintroduces analog control and then the rumble pack with StarFox64. Sony redesigns PS1 controller for Dual analogs. Then once more to create the Dual Shock.

Give credit where credit is due.

 

[Blade]

Nintendo standardized the analog stick for consoles with N64's, but MS probably has the all-around best controller this gen.

That said, I find the GCN and Xbox controllers equally satisfying. I bought the GCN version of Soul Calibur II despite complaints about the controller and quickly got over any hump that stood in the way of a quality gaming experience with it.

I gotta say that the analog buttons on the Xbox controller are a blessing and at times also a curse, though. I'm near the end of Prince of Persia, and wall-jumping has been a slight pain in the ass. Maybe it's just me or maybe I'm wrong, but lordy lord lord those sections would've been soooo much easier on GameCube. I can't complain though, everything has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[pcostabel]

The best controller this gen is the EyeToy. Sony already announced they will integrate it in PS3. I doubt Nintendo can top that.

 

[Sonic]

The best controller this generation is hard to say. The Dual Shock 2 isn't that much of an improvement in design but has added functionality. The design isn't all that terrible to begin with. The only thing I really dislike about the Dual Shock 2 is the D-pad. Seems Sony never got it right, but that could be me being used to the Saturn control pad.

Microsoft's pad isn't all that great either. I really enjoyed the setup for Halo but it's a tad too big for my tastes. It seems like a Dreamcast pad on steroids with really clever analog stick layed out. The controller S is an improvement but I can't get used to the start and select/back button being on the left hand side and not the middle.

SEGA's Saturn pad in Japan was the best IMO as far as digital pads go. It was so easy for fighting games and really felt comfortable. The Dreamcast pad was an abomination almost and wasn't that ergonomic for my hands.

Nintendo's original controller was a functional rectangle that was the best for its time. The SNES pad felt like a brand new design but also an evolution at the same time. It was complex for its time, but felt good in your hands. The L and R buttons were really innovative and probably really helped the sales of Street Fighter 2 on the system. When we get to the N64 that's where it gets interesting. Nintendo came out with an out of this world controller that could be held in so many different combinations. Was it innovative? YES. Was it ergonomic? YES. Really good pad. The button placement was very nice except for maybe the D-pad, but for me that's the one of the most critical parts of a controller. Now the GCN pad is just a comfort to hold. It does take some time getting used to, but once you get the hold of it it becomes 2nd nature.

Even still, I would say all three controllers are nice up to a point. I'm more used to the PS2 pad because I play that system more than the others. So my views are a little skewed perhaps when it comes to this. In the end it all comes down to personal preference and enjoyment.

Will Nintendo retain the #1 in terms of pad designing? It just might if it comes out with a wacky design like the N64 and GCN and the controller is still a joy to use.

 

[Snyder]

Why is no one here talking about Dreamcast's controllers? They are still the best controllers for my hands. (And the XBox ones are quite similar to them IMHO, only worse...)

 

[V3]

Why is no one here talking about Dreamcast's controllers

Dreamcast has the best d-pad, but everything else was better on the Saturn Nights Controller. It has those VMS system though, that no other pad this gen even try them. Though I can't say I find it useful, but for something like Football game, it seems to be useful.

Gamecube controller, are just too small. The Analog sticks (both of them) still can be painful on your thumb. Nintendo should try to follow Microsoft on this one, MS has the best analog stick this gen. The different size buttons, aren't comfortable either. They should just put the A, B buttons from N64 controller. The bean shape button definitely need to go. Z-button need to be change as well, its painfull to press that button. The Digital pad aren't all that either. The only thing I like about GC controller is the two shoulder buttons.

Xbox controller, isn't bad, but those buttons need to be larger, small buttons like that hurt your thumb. Triggers are definitely better than DC controller. But I still prefer shoulder buttons. Like for DC, I hardly used Triggers, if I can reconfigure the game to do so.

PS2 controller, D-pad still bad, but its better than PS1 days. Buttons are the best out of all the controller. Analog can be less flimsy. The handle can be a tad bigger for my liking. But its shape is the most comfortable ever since it was introduce for PS1.

My perfect controller would be like this, using PS2 controller shape enlarge a tad, with this modification, put Dreamcast d-pad in place of PS2 d-pad, put the Xbox analog sticks in place of PS2 Analog, put GC shoulder buttons in place of L2, R2. but keep L1 and R1.

 

[Jov]

PS2 Duel Shock is the best for a lot of games and overall I am the most comfortable with, but after spending huge amount of hours on Metrod Prime, the Cube's controller is probably best for that type of game including FPS.

Xbox standard is slight big, but the smaller version is pretty good. For Fighting games the PS2 DS is still King given the punishment it takes from the games I used to play with the boys.

As for innovation, Nintendo for effort, but Sony (Analog buttons) for being realistic and going mostly with what's already pretty good for this generation. Its ashame not more games exploit this because a lot of the games don't force the player to use fineness in their control to advance rather than button bashing.

 

[jvd]

Sega made the most revolutionary controllers. Not allways teh best . The knights control pad may have been the best controller ever made though.

 

[Deepak]

Can anyone design a controller that can beat KB/M combo as far as FPS are concerned? It is a nightmare playing an FPS with a console controller.

 

[cthellis42]

I imagine they'll keep on their trend of making unique and interesting controllers, for sure...

In the meanwhile, "the best" controller for every individual will stay the same, and bear striking connections to "whichever console they use most."

 

[Dio]

There's no such thing as 'the best controller'. Everyone likes something different.

For example, I totally detest all forms of joypads because they are pathetically inaccurate . I can't bring myself to believe I really am better at Columns than t'other half, because she insists on using a joypad and I would make too many mistakes with anything that imprecise .

It seems I'm also considered to be cackhanded by the rest of the world, because I prefer to operate the stick with my right hand and the buttons with my left. No sniggering at the back there.

Oh well. I can always buy myself an arcade cab, strip the controls and hotwire them into a cheapo joypad...

BUT since I hate joypads I can probably do an 'independent assessment' . I would define the PS/PS2 one as 'standard' in that it does nothing special but nothing badly. The X-box one looks beautiful but I find its size can be cramp-inducing. The Nintendo one is probably the most 'pickup and play' because the different button sizes encourage developers to put the most used controls on natural buttons, but I'm even less convinced by its analogue stick than anyone elses.

I give the award to the Megadrive (which therefore probably confirms cthellis42's statement about 'whichever console you use most')