Will gaming move 100% to the cloud? *spawn

It's not about whether or not anyone is willing to spend but what the relative sizes of each audience is.

We've also already seen what happened with the shift with multi platform game design and how the "target" focus for games become the consoles. With PC "hardware" gamers, especially the higher end buyers, lamenting how they are not the target anymore compared say over a decade+ ago.

Not to mention the other factors of what is contributing to the current spending on PC hardware, especially GPUs. There are a segment of buyers currently very willing to build "large" PCs multiple graphics cards wide but it certainly isn't for gaming.



What can change that is if the people willing to spend more on hardware also are willing to do so on software. This has always been an interesting aspect of PC gaming in how buyers (at least some) are willing to spend extra on hardware yet expect the software side (whom makes nothing extra on said hardware) to cater to them more.

The original premise that started this thread was that moores law stopped or at least fell of a cliff. In my opinion if that happens then people will end up with the best technology in their home. They will just devote more space to it. I would certainly have a closet dedicated to a high end gaming rig or at least a fridge sized system.

If the only way to increase graphics and performance is to go bigger with more video cards and more cpus instead of continuing to shrink well the cloud blades will have to adopt the same thing wouldn't they ? Which means that developers will target that too
 
I can see console gaming disappearing into the clouds, but Medium to High End PC gaming will not, It will always remain there. Sadly cloud will hinder the progression of graphics/game design, as cloud hardware will be replaced/upgraded less often, and it will come with it's own baggage of live service shenanigans and microtransactions. AAA games will transform into the abominable mobile model to appeal to the "masses". In other words: this will dumb down game design and graphics.
 
I can see console gaming disappearing into the clouds, but Medium to High End PC gaming will not, It will always remain there. Sadly cloud will hinder the progression of graphics/game design, as cloud hardware will be replaced/upgraded less often, and it will come with it's own baggage of live service shenanigans and microtransactions. AAA games will transform into the abominable mobile model to appeal to the "masses". In other words: this will dumb down game design and graphics.

And spur a renaissance in quality indie games made exclusively for PC.
 
The discussion about Cloud isn't 100% whether it will take over local hardware for gaming. It's about whether all games going forward will be released on cloud; and that doesn't mean it won't be released on local hardware as well.
In fairness, the metric wasn't defined and people can be at cross purposes. For me, the idea is if gaming, certainly mainstream, will move away from local boxes towards streaming from servers. Kinda like asking, "will music move to 100% CDs?" and, "will music move to 100% digital?" The 100% isn't an absolute target, so with music moving to CDs, in real terms, yeah it did, even if 5%of the industry was laggards listening to their crackly LPs or buying tapes for the car tape-player.

Whether there's a stoic market for ultra high-end hardware or not isn't that important to whether consoles disappear and the barriers to that happening. I kinda hope by that point, there are industrial caps on the power consumption of gear for environmental reasons - we're supposed to be reducing climate change factors and the notion of multi-GPU monster² gaming rigs needing 10x the silicon to get 10x the power, does not sit well with that!
 
For me, the idea is if gaming, certainly mainstream, will move away from local boxes towards streaming from servers.
agreed. What interesting is that the current players of games using local boxes doesn't need to decline even a single % pt for the majority of the mainstream crowd to move to online.

I know it sounds weird, but when you consider 400M gamers using local boxes vs 2B+ possible new gamers added to the pie, then the majority can suddenly shift without necessarily loosing population.
 
Not a hundred percent sure on what they are using. I just know that in an internal employee beta they are using some type of filtering after its streamed

I expect this feature will eventually find its way onto Xbox Console apps as well as the standalone applications.

Xbox article entry on it: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/11/29/clarity-boost-with-xbox-cloud-gaming-on-edge-browser/

Today, we are excited to invite you to experience Clarity Boost, one of the latest cloud gaming optimizations available on Microsoft Edge Canary. This feature uses a set of client-side scaling improvements to improve the visual quality of the video stream. Download Microsoft Edge Canary today to try out these features! Clarity Boost will be available to all Microsoft Edge users by next year.
 
What happens during big game releases however ? Even now when a new mmo or online game launches servers crash. So you always have to over build vs under build .

Also the cost is all on the company releasing the cloud service where as the cost is shifted to the end user when you sell them a console.

Overbuild a little, but not that much since MS is obviously going to stagger AAA releases on GamePass, for instance. As indicated earlier - 10% of the required hardware is a huge win even if it turns out to really be 15% or something to build in some "peak time" protection. The cost will all be in the subscription.

I realize a lot of peeps here are very much guarding their uber PC gaming rigs with their lives and fearing the "Day of the Cloud", but I think if we're being objective there's huge upsides to Cloud gaming that 80%+ of the potential gaming audience will appreciate.

Maybe there will still be individual AAA releases 15 years from now like Sony is doing, but I'm not betting on it. I suppose there are a few people still buying the latest Marvel movies on BluRay instead of subscribing to Disney+, but that ship is sailing away for most people IMO.

With that said, the two can co-exist. GamePass on cloud blades and AAA individual titles on consoles/PC, but I think the economics heavily favour the former.

PS: Eastmen, you're the last guy I thought would be betting against Cloud-Blades.
 
So is this the future we have to look forward to as a PC gamer?

3080-level Cloud PC $20/month
Game Pass $10/month + mtx
Ubisoft+ $15/month + mtx
EA Plus $15/month + mtx
TakeTwo+ $15/month + mtx
Kotick+ $15/month + mtx
1 full price game every 3 months $20/month
Steam backlog sales $20/month
 
So is this the future we have to look forward to as a PC gamer?

3080-level Cloud PC $20/month
Game Pass $10/month + mtx
Ubisoft+ $15/month + mtx
EA Plus $15/month + mtx
TakeTwo+ $15/month + mtx
Kotick+ $15/month + mtx
1 full price game every 3 months $20/month
Steam backlog sales $20/month

lol. kotick.

240/yr sounds annoyingly expensive. Except that's 10 years of gaming with cloud upgrades over those 10 years, vs 1x 3090. That's not even counting the cost of CPUs, memory, storage, etc.

But I would disagree that, that is what you ahve to look forward to as a PC Gamer. As a PC gamer nothing changes for you. For a new gamer whose got an old linux laptop/apple laptop/chrome book, a random old TV with no hardware, suddenly you have all this power at your finger tips for marginally low barrier costs.
 
So is this the future we have to look forward to as a PC gamer?

3080-level Cloud PC $20/month
Game Pass $10/month + mtx
Ubisoft+ $15/month + mtx
EA Plus $15/month + mtx
TakeTwo+ $15/month + mtx
Kotick+ $15/month + mtx
1 full price game every 3 months $20/month
Steam backlog sales $20/month

That's the direction movie streaming is heading in. Every content provider wants to stream directly to the consumer and cut out the middle man. Hopefully with games it's more like Netflix than Disney+. It's highly unlikely that every big game publisher is going to want to run their own cloud service.
 
Overbuild a little, but not that much since MS is obviously going to stagger AAA releases on GamePass, for instance. As indicated earlier - 10% of the required hardware is a huge win even if it turns out to really be 15% or something to build in some "peak time" protection. The cost will all be in the subscription.

I realize a lot of peeps here are very much guarding their uber PC gaming rigs with their lives and fearing the "Day of the Cloud", but I think if we're being objective there's huge upsides to Cloud gaming that 80%+ of the potential gaming audience will appreciate.

Maybe there will still be individual AAA releases 15 years from now like Sony is doing, but I'm not betting on it. I suppose there are a few people still buying the latest Marvel movies on BluRay instead of subscribing to Disney+, but that ship is sailing away for most people IMO.

With that said, the two can co-exist. GamePass on cloud blades and AAA individual titles on consoles/PC, but I think the economics heavily favour the former.

PS: Eastmen, you're the last guy I thought would be betting against Cloud-Blades.

Yea but MS can do that if they only have to worry about their games. How many third parties are going to be willing to step off holiday releases ? Some months we get dozens of games launched.

I'm also not against cloud. I think its just another tool in the belt , not the only tool
 
Can see a future where PS/Xbox are going to be just services, and where high-end local gaming would become niche. Its not i like that idea, but it just makes sense.
 
Yea but MS can do that if they only have to worry about their games. How many third parties are going to be willing to step off holiday releases ? Some months we get dozens of games launched.

I'm also not against cloud. I think its just another tool in the belt , not the only tool

Cloud doesn't mean full price individual software sales will disappear. Games can release as they always have and then transitioned to a subscription service with a release date that works for that service's schedule.

For MS, its a matter of targeting the holidays with their biggest release and fill the first 10 months with releases in a way that maximizes engagement.

But I see local hardware as always being a part of the landscape. A big ass high priced box may off put many mainstream gamers but its not like that doesn't exists anyways in the PC space. Plus you have to produce the hardware for the service. Might as well sells the hardware to the most dedicated gamers and make a few dollars.
 
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Under the new paradigm, some publishers are going away IMO. Not everyone is going to survive. EA has already rolled into GamePass. Ubisoft might be next. Take Two will hold out as long as they can, but MS is headed to 30 studios/60 dev teams in the next 5-10 years.

60 dev teams cranking out a AAA game every 5 years is 12 AAA titles per year. More likely they'll ship a AAA game every 2 months and a AA game every month as well for variety once they get going.

Even look at the release schedule for MS lately - Flight Sim in July, Psychonauts 2 in August, Age of Empires IV in October, Forza Horizon 5 in November, Halo Infinite in December.

Sony will likely have to follow a similar model at some point. They're just trying to hold out as long as possible. They're hoping MS fails with GamePass, but I don't think that's going to happen.

In the long run we're probably looking at different subscription tiers from $15/month to $30, but free hardware.
 
Cloud doesn't mean full price individual software sales will disappear. Games can release as they always have and then transitioned to a subscription service with a release date that works for that service's schedule.

For MS, its a matter of targeting the holidays with their biggest release and fill the first 10 months with releases in a way that maximizes engagement.

But I see local hardware as always being a part of the landscape. A big ass high priced box may off put many mainstream gamers but its not like that doesn't exists anyways in the PC space. Plus you have to produce the hardware for the service. Might as well sells the hardware to the most dedicated gamers and make a few dollars.

So lets imagine this. COD , Battlefield , halo and destiny sequels all launch between the end of Sept and the end of Nov. That's just those games , there will be a few dozen other games released then also. So how much over build do they need to do to handle all this ?

Like I said at big MMO or multiplayer games services still crash and that is with the end user having their own hardware to run the game.
 
So lets imagine this. COD , Battlefield , halo and destiny sequels all launch between the end of Sept and the end of Nov. That's just those games , there will be a few dozen other games released then also. So how much over build do they need to do to handle all this ?

Like I said at big MMO or multiplayer games services still crash and that is with the end user having their own hardware to run the game.
Significant. If your goal is to appeal to 2B gamers, that's a lot more hardware than all the consoles and PC hardware combined today.
But at the same time, you don't expect concurrent players to be 2B, so you can save there.
Where if you have 2B hardware owners, you must produce 2B devices.

Large cloud providers should be providing solutions to spool up servers and take down servers as required.
Players playing Halo can't simultaneously be playing COD and Battlefield. So there's going to be upper limits to the situation you describe.

Let's do some napkin ballparking:
On Steam, at the peaks Halo is ~150K, Battlefield is 50K, COD the numbers aren't known yet. But lets say 150K to be safe. You've have be able to support 350K instances at once globally just for Steam, and say 2.5x that to include both consoles. So about 800K at max peak levels.

Sony has been shipping over 1M units a month in PS5s alone and that's a much tougher process than building out 1M units a month for cloud. You don't need packaging, you don't need cooling, you have a big allotment of memory and access to a different kind of hard drive space, and a single blade is likely holding several chips. And a large number of blades can fit into a single cabinet making transportation issues a non issue.

You don't need to ship controllers or power cables, no DVD drives.

I think a company like MS can easily handle shipping Series S, X and making server blades all at the same time and keep it up. It will always take some time to shift your entire cloud base over to new hardware, since so many blades need to be replaced, but if that's all that is required, then shifting to new hardware may not have the growing pains as a net new premise install.

Lastly; if you look at AWS, Azure, and GCP, and others; they have arguably done much more work than the potential lift required for games, as they did it for all industry computer jobs ranging from web, storage, VM, compute, ML/AI, etc.

The list of available services on Azure, AWS, and GCP is massive and cheap.
 
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Steam had 120m active users last year, peaked at 27m concurrent users this year. That's 22.5% of their active user base.

Personally I have trouble seeing a single game streaming service beating Netflix's 200m or so subscribers. 45 million units of cloud hardware would be the absolute max for any given service at Steam concurrent user peak?

(Can't account for Steam's user growth over a year as don't have those figures)
 
Steam had 120m active users last year, peaked at 27m concurrent users this year. That's 22.5% of their active user base.

Personally I have trouble seeing a single game streaming service beating Netflix's 200m or so subscribers. 45 million units of cloud hardware would be the absolute max for any given service at Steam concurrent user peak?

(Can't account for Steam's user growth over a year as don't have those figures)
nothing is likely to surpass the amount of searches per second google is hammered by per second ;)

The type of services we support out there on cloud far surpass gaming. Search, web, data storage, streaming services, etc. A vast majority of these companies are likely now switch over to cloud and leaving on premise equipment.
 
Are we really counting moms with phones playing gem matching games as potential CoD cloud gamers?
 
https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world#:~:text=How Many People Have Mobile Phones In The World?&text=In 2021, including both smart,the world cell phone owners.
6.37B phone users.

2B potential gamer market.

We aren't expecting them to play COD ;)

Streaming services need to diverge to support non violent,. non serious games as well. More casual titles. I know people put Sony exclusives on the mantel, but those types of games are not likely to be as successful on a cloud service for the mobile customers over more casual/generic fun games.

Would be a good fit for monitors/tvs/older laptops etc.
 
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