WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

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I put this on the other thread.

Gamers hoping for an online component, however, are in for bad news, because one isn't planned. Activision would not say why, but IGN has separately learned from multiple development sources that Nintendo will not release Wii Wi-Fi Connection libraries to third parties until early 2007, which means that no third party launch title will have an online mode.


http://wii.ign.com/articles/728/728041p1.html

I wonder what other tools/libraries they didnt gave yet to devs and if the bad looking/downgrades (eg RS) can be because of that.

BTW thanks for the info.
 
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the AA that we are seeing in Xbox360 games that use it, is what I had expected from last generation, PS2,GC,Xbox and even Dreamcast. but most games completely lacked any real anti-aliasing last gen. true, some had AA but most did not. alot of games used what's called flicker filter, a technology that I don't understand very well--but anyway, if you go back to before last-gen, and look at the highend arcade scene with MODEL 3 dominating in technology, you see most if not every MODEL 3 game had some amount of AA. I recently watched Scud Race very carefully. while you can see some aliasing, its not the raw jagged type, because some AA is clearly applied, which is not the case with most Dreamcast, NAOMI, PS2,System 246, NAOMI 2, Gamecube, TriForce, Xbox, and Chihiro games.

as for the next console generation: Xbox720, Wii2, PS4 (or at least the X720 and PS4) I expect very low cost, almost free 16x anti-aliasing. that's the level of AA that makes the jaggies really disappear. although decent prerendered CGI in cutscenes, techdemos, television, etc. no doubt use a significantly higher amount of AA.

on the highend realtime side, with 4 or 8 Nvidia GPUs, I think they're upto 32x AA if I'm not mistaken.

as for Hollywood and Wii anti-aliasing, I don't expect much, maybe games will use more of what Gamecube already had, but didn't use because of fillrate restrictions. Wii has at least a wee bit more fillrate so, 2x or 3x AA should be used more often. I forget the level of AA that Gamecube was capable of, I think it was 3x max.

Hopefully they implemented msaa, so it's not impacting fillrate at all.
Oh yeah, and we'll probably be lucky to see mandatory 4x AA next gen, you can probably count on both hands the number of titles from last gen (across all 4 systems) that used AA and not some form of flicker filter.
 
new Monster 4x4 World Circuit screens

2fe4871027b4fd8704feaab311048751.jpg


3c315aaa1d928ce41ae5e1eb955ce48b.jpg
 
Burnout 3 looked better :(
...or even ExciteTruck.

It's probably just the crummy artstyle. Heck, we haven't yet seen a Burnout game for a Nintendo console since Burnout 2 (DS games excluding), and even back then with Acclaim, Criterion was able to pull off some amazing performance from the GC.
 
Isn't Monster4x4 a straight port just like CARS? If so, you can't expect them to improve the gfx a lot, hopefully the fix the gameplay because it really got bad scores.
 
Why is AA such a problem on 360 and PS3? I thought the new hardware would alow AA to come at no cost, will the missing link to matching real CG be unattainable forever?

The x360 GPU's eDRAM is allowing for 4x AA for a very low cost. However, only if you use it correctly. Since bandwidth heavy memory types like eDRAM is also very expensive, MS could only fit a 10mb chip on it. Unfortunately this is not enough to do 4x AA at no cost @ 720p.

In order to achieve AA tru the eDRAM you need to take advantage of somethign called tiling. Most game engines out does not support tiling, (not even UE3 supports that), so you need a brand new game engine build from scratch. This takes a lot of time and a lot of money. None of the games you have seen so far have been build with brand new game engine designed stickly for the X360, all you have seen is middleware stuff or heavly upgraded xbox 1 engines. Basically, you need to wait until developers either rewrite their engines to support tiling, make brand new engines that support it, or wait until somebody somebody figures out a more effective way of doing AA.

As far as the PS3 goes, the PS3 lacks the memory bandwidth to support a high amounts of AA (+ other bandwidth heavy effects) at the same time at HD resolutions.
 
As far as the PS3 goes, the PS3 lacks the memory bandwidth to support a high amounts of AA (+ other bandwidth heavy effects) at the same time at HD resolutions.

Really? I bet we see more 4xAA @ 60fps PS3-games than on 360. Or even at 30fps..

PS3 has much more bandwidth than 360 if you discount the eDRAM.
 
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PS3 has much more bandwidth than 360 if you discount the eDRAM.
Well yeah, if you discount the eDRAM BW, but as that eDRAM BW is there to enable things like AA, why would you?

XB360 has exactly the same BW, if you discount the XDR in PS3...
 
steering thread back on-topic:

I'm really hoping Wii will be home to the highest percentage of 60fps games of all three consoles, since it doesn't have to deal with HDTV resolutions. I hope that the nature of the Wiimote dictates/demands higher framerates. where games that are often 15~25fps have to be 30fps and games that are 25~30fps have to be 60fps, assuming Hollywood has 4 ROPs like Flipper, it'll have more or less ~1 gigapixel fillrate to work with, and hopefully that is with anti-aliasing, not before anti-aliasing.
 
Resolution isn't the be all and end all of framerate. There's just as much chance of Wii developers putting in more eyecandy and dropping the framerate as there is on the other platforms. 720p @ 60hz is easily doable on XB360 for example, if you keep the poly counts and shader lengths low enough. Only if Wii has a huge excess of GPU power in relation to screen resolution will it have an increased chance of high framerates. Or a mandate from Nintendo.
 
Hardware designers should really build in dedicated hardware for AA so the developers would have no choice but to use it.
As it is now the temptation to just get a bit better effects or be a bit lazy on the optimization by ditching AA is way to great. This way we are never going to see good AA as standard.

Another thing, the way in which AA is done on most hardware today, requiring the same bandwidth and memory as plain super sampling is just silly, Sure you save some fillrate, but there are alternatives like edge AA or z-buffer analyzation that will get you comparable results without the excessive bandwidth and memory penalties.
 
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steering thread back on-topic:

I'm really hoping Wii will be home to the highest percentage of 60fps games of all three consoles.

Didnt GC already have that. Anyway it will depend a lot on dev, like Shifty said, but I think we can at least hope for the more stable ones.

Resolution isn't the be all and end all of framerate. There's just as much chance of Wii developers putting in more eyecandy and dropping the framerate as there is on the other platforms. 720p @ 60hz is easily doable on XB360 for example, if you keep the poly counts and shader lengths low enough. Only if Wii has a huge excess of GPU power in relation to screen resolution will it have an increased chance of high framerates. Or a mandate from Nintendo.

Rez may not care that much but Wii will probably have much less botlenecks being easier to get a more stable (60 or less) fremerate.

BTW BTWii videos (off screen), not what one should expect.

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/849/849911/vids_1.html
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/5326

About those 4x4 ss, they are really bad. One should expect things like some higher (even if not that much higher) qualitity XB games at 60FPS yet we get this, I wonder what is happening, didnt they have tools (like for the online) or they dont care or they dont have the HW, it is taking to much time to port for Wii HW...

We need to see FC (one of the best looking XB games) and see the Wii version so we can get a better idea of what to expect in the early games.
 
dunno what you mean by that but i definitely expected same art syle with a greater draw distance - which is pretty much what one gets ; )

I must say I didnt played the original one, but from what I saw I am having hard time to see how do the controler brings anything new.

On the other side tech didnt seem to bring anything new too (besides online).

So this is does not bring anything new, not a good prospect for a "revolution".

Plus IIRC CoD3/MP3 had better smoke and I really hate pop up in the scenario.

But given I didnt played the first, the + tactics part (I hope there is really any tactics) and the online it make me interesting in folowing this game and see how it ends.
 
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What, have you seen images and videos of the GC original version?

The Wii version features a much larger draw distance, also the environment is much more dense with tress, bushes. The pop-in will ovbiously be ironed out before release.

Wii get it, your not happy with the hardware.
 
There's just as much chance of Wii developers putting in more eyecandy and dropping the framerate as there is on the other platforms.
Actually, I think the incentive to drop FPS for candy will be less on Wii than on any other console in recent memory, and this because of the wiimote. When you do reactive action games, you want smooth and fluid screen updates to give the action 'feel' a boost from your movement input. I doubt devs will want to go below 30 FPS, and preferably hit 60 directly.

The GC hardware was already very straight-forward, uncomplicated and forgiving, and if anything it might have become even more polished since last.

720p @ 60hz is easily doable on XB360 for example, if you keep the poly counts and shader lengths low enough.
Well, 360 ought to have at least 1.5x fillrate-to-pixel ratio of Wii if not more (depends on if Wii does true widescreen or just stretches 640*480 thru 16:9 aspect), and of course it has a monstrously more powerful GPU and CPU, so hitting 60 should be a cinc in comparison, really. I guess the complexities of programming a game with next-gen visuals on a triple-core, dual-issue, 2-way multithreaded, in-order CPU is tripping up devs a bit at the moment with regards to the framerate, but things'll come around sooner or later.

Another thing, the way in which AA is done on most hardware today, requiring the same bandwidth and memory as plain super sampling is just silly
Well, since tile-based deferred rendering never catched on, I guess we have to live with stupid multisampling for the foreseeable future...
 
Wii get it, your not happy with the hardware.

Not with the combination of HW/price/lack of innovation/HW utilization (XB+) ;) .

eg, I would prefer Virtua Tennis 2 with Wii controls(not WiiSports like) + online and low price than Virtua Tennis 3, but we are getting none.

I wouldnt say it is a bad looking game, its not pretty (from those videos), but this look much more like a good expansion pack (a thing that is becoming each time more comun since last gen), but I really hope they get rid of the pop up as it is really distracting.


BTW a new rumor



I wouldnt be suprissed if this is true, on the other side few things from Nintendo could suprisse me, personally I even found likely..

I hope it is true thought.

And 3 new ss of Tony Hawks, looking much better IMO (specially the carachters).

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/824/824474/img_3865469.html
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/824/824474/img_3865470.html
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/824/824474/img_3865471.html
 
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