WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

[pc999]

I suppose so (though not in the case of memory to be honest). I just assumed the developer was talking about how easily those kind of features could be used compared to GC. So even lesser technically accomplished developer could put in plenty of stuff like bump maps and AA without slowing there games down.. maybe not but that's just how I read it.

It is a possible interpretation too.

 

[StefanS]

I suppose so (though not in the case of memory to be honest). I just assumed the developer was talking about how easily those kind of features could be used compared to GC. So even lesser technically accomplished developer could put in plenty of stuff like bump maps and AA without slowing there games down.. maybe not but that's just how I read it.

That's the way I read it as well. He seems to imply Wii has plentiful resources to do it, at least in my opinion. That's why I posted it.

 

[Ooh-videogames]

I tihink Nintendo has set out to wait for most technology to evolve, hence the stance they have taken with HDTV's. Reading their patents, it seems they put Hollywood R&D into building upon tech from Flipper, and implementing hardware based technology that would alow them have features such as shaders without having an enormous amount of transistors.

The "recirculating" shader(shade tree), the word in quotation marks is the key. In order to perform much more complex shading models, the shading model is recirculated but reconfigured if desired. 15 stages are possible, a recirculating shade tree pixel blender is implemented in hardware to minimize processing time per stage. The shader hardware can be reconfigured for each stage to provide a chain of specifiable blending/shading operations supporting single rendering pass multitexturing and other effects.

I know bring up this patent alot, but I just keep thinking about it. I believe it just points to the route Nintendo chose, when it came to using modern technology and building on what they had. The implementation of the shade tree, is a example of that as well.

I think this goes to the comments by the ATI representative who said that we were just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Rolf N]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=798484&highlight=recirculating+shader#post798484

 

[fearsomepirate]

I know bring up this patent alot, but I just keep thinking about it.

I think you are thinking about something that's basically a patent on what was already implemented in Gamecube.

 

[Teasy]

I think you are thinking about something that's basically a patent on what was already implemented in Gamecube.

As far as I remember the patent shows this "recirculating shader" as a seperate block of logic outside of the TEV. So that would suggest its not the same as GC.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I'm definitally getting this game. love the art-style. whether this is an indication of what Hollywood can do or not though, is open for questioning.

 

[Ooh-videogames]

I think you are thinking about something that's basically a patent on what was already implemented in Gamecube.

Teasy, has already explained why it points to it possibly being hollywood based. Another point is, its file date. Which is Oct 4, 2005.

http://aiw1.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=us...intendo.AS.%26OS=AN/Nintendo%26RS=AN/Nintendo

This is a link to the block diagram.

 

[Megadrive1988]

new Red Steel interview and screens

Where are you with Red Steel graphically speaking?

In terms of graphics, we proceed step by step for Red Steel.

First of all, it took a few months before we decided to use Japan as the main settings. So during this period, we researched different ideas and locations and the style that could be interesting to highlight it. As we did not have any technical info at this time, it was a very open minded period: any idea could be the good one.

Do you feel limited vs. the power of the console?

The relative power of the console set a limit, in fact. That is why we started working on a stylish realistic rendering rather than on a pure photorealism treatment, with shaders and other heavy effects. The idea is to provide eye-catching scenes that are really cool and emphasize the action of the game, rather than places that highlight impressive effect, which you do not pay any attention to in the middle of the action anyway.

So how does it look?

To give the darker ambiance we use a lot a "de-saturation" treatment above this look. By de-saturation, I mean we lower all the colors and have more colored grey in the end than real colors. In parallel, we also push the lighting system. We implement tons of flashy colourful neon lights and objects. Sometimes, they are even blurred sources of lights, which shine with bloom within the grey atmosphere.

In addition, we contrast a lot the graphics: lights are more powerful, shadows are darker.

In the end, the goal is to look old but not black and white and flashy colors add a touch of modernism. We support a lot the "films noirs" side of the game, but we adapt it our way.

Note that these contrasts between shadows and colors should also help the player to progress / to be guided through the levels. In the same idea, characters will be less desaturated in order to be more visible for more comfort.

http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/726/726285/red-steel-20060817041706910.jpg
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/726/726285/red-steel-20060817041651754.jpg
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/726/726285/red-steel-20060817041713863.jpg
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/726/726285/red-steel-20060817041716535.jpg

the rest here: http://wii.ign.com/articles/726/726285p1.html
and here: http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/img_3847072.html


[Moderated : Image rules !]

 

[fearsomepirate]

I really hate the texturing on that shotgun. And the hands. Seriously.

 

[Guden Oden]

Megadrive, please edit your post to remove the images; they screw with the screen width of the page. Unless you got a monitor with a bajillion pixels horizontal rez (and most don't).

Rayman pics look really good IMO, from an art point of view at least if people don't want to agree there's technical impressiveness present in them as well... The one where he rides the shark is awesome IMO. Water looks particulary inviting, but colors are all very nice; saturated enough to look rich and delicious, but not overdone a la Mario etc.

 

[StefanS]

Megadrive, please edit your post to remove the images; they screw with the screen width of the page. Unless you got a monitor with a bajillion pixels horizontal rez (and most don't).

They're bigger than the forum rules allow anyway, so I am pretty sure they'll be changed to normal links...

Red Steel is kind of mixed bag at the moment. Some pictures look nice, others show some really low resolution texturing. I hope that the gfx will improve some more. But for the moment, the dev seem rather happy with what they've achieved. At least the interview gives me that impression.

 

[pc999]

Personally RS is looking way worse than at the begining from both the "art rework" as the actual art rework (consequense of the "art rework"). The game is just ugly (even with older tech we saw games much prettier than this).

BTW find this, dont know if real or not but it does seems to be any "new" that would contradict the possiblity of being real.

Tell us a little about the AI of enemies in Red Steel and in particular the '' clan '' system.

Our AI system is based upon a morale meter. Factors that influence positvely the enemies' morale are: numbers, knowledge of the player's location, leaders being alive and giving orders. In these cases enemies will advance towards the player, outflanking him or being able to find a better firing axis. If the enemy is wounded, he will seek cover, retreat, or even flee. The controllers have enabled us to tune the enemies' movement very precisely. In a standard console FPS, enemies stand relatively still so the player can aim with the pad. In Red Steel, the enemies do move alot, jump over crates to outflank the player, lob grenades, take cover and pop up to shoot at him, etc... To pass vertain situations the controller's possibilities will have to be fully used, by moving and aiming on screen with great precision. As for clans, we aim at depicting the eastern code of Honor. Why kill someone when he is begging for mercy and doesn't stand a chance? The player merely has to disarm him, and pin him to the ground. If a leader is bested, he will respect the player, his minions will do too. They might even help him. If the player kills a leader who is disarmed, his allies will be furious, hate the player and will do everything they can to kill him. Some scenes can be passed by merely diarming the enemies' leader: the player will then prove his mastery, and his enemies will respect him.

I love good AI, it is also very good to see that (like I said) that the new controler will help push the AI futher too.

Red Steel is looking very strong graphically - what engine is it running on and what are its strengths?

Red Steel is running on the improved version UNreal engine for the Wii system. A large portion of our team has already worked with the Unreal engine. They are already well aware of its strengths and weaknesses. We have pushed the engine to its limits to offer a rich, colored and different setting to the player. Eastern culture allows for original and seldom seen scenes. We are taking advantage of that.

I actually had thought a few times that this looked like a UE game (Specially E3 version)(and UBI indeed uses it a lot), it is interesting that the first shoots/trailer (made on a PC) looked like it used some version of UE2X (with fxs as bloom, more/better per vertex lightning, emisive materials on the neons, blur during the freeze shots (not necessarly this one) or from hits, projective shadows (as darkblu supect it to be)...), if this is possible on the XB then it must be possible on Wii (UBI itself said that Wii is more powerfull) and this game seems to use more or less (maybe less) the same features just with more detail, althought in much smaler scenarios too (which make me think that only time would/is stop/ing them from putting the game looking like the original trailer on wii).

I wonder if Epic is porting/upgrading(?, well it is more powerfull than XB) their UE2X to wii (ClyffB said thay are in talks with Nintendo at the E3) and for some reaons, they still not have it or will not be ready in time for the game. Could it be possible the reason for the (temporary?) "art rework"?

I hope they can ideed make the game like showed first as it looked really good, IMO.

 

[AlNom]

On a side note, that pistol reminds me of the one in Duke Nukem 3D.

 

[Fox5]

Honestly, I think Red Steel looks like James Bond: Nightfire for the Xbox.

Oh and...

GamaSutra: I like that arc on the grenade [in Gears Of War]...
GamaSutra: How would you do that with the Nintendo Revolution?
CliffB: Just throw the controller at the screen.

Big lol at this signature!

 

[Megadrive1988]

sorry guys been away from home & office for a few days. thanks for editing for me.

 

[pc999]

One question (mark it a hypotetical if you want).

IF the wii is indeed just a faster GC, there would be need to Havok to re-optimize their SW to wii, once it is already optimized to GC?

 

[StefanS]

One question (mark it a hypotetical if you want).

IF the wii is indeed just a faster GC, there would be need to Havok to re-optimize their SW to wii, once it is already optimized to GC?

Looks like you're a prophet...

In fact, speaking to Nintendo Dream magazine, Shigeru Miyamoto described the game's transition from 'Cube to Wii as "an interesting experiment". It seems that following the success of Twilight Princess's bi-polar development, the Nintendo luminary is keen to remake existing GameCube titles, adding full Wiimote support.

"The machine is based on GC," said Miyamoto. "We'll be upgrading the development tools, but GameCube code can be used for the most part as is. In that sense, I believe that it would be good to remake GameCube games for Wii, and that some titles would become better with the change to the Wii remote controller."
...

The first such "Wiimake," as these GameCube to Wii remakes are already being referred to, is, of course, Twilight Princess, which is scheduled to launch with the Wii later this year. Miyamoto justified Nintendo's decision to use the game's additional development time to concentrate on additional content, rather than adding visual bells and whistles to the Wii version. "At one point," he explained, "even members of our staff said 'the Wii is more powerful than the GC, so we'd like to polish the graphics.' However, Zelda players don't look forward to this polish, they look forward to an enjoyable game."

http://wii.ign.com/articles/726/726749p1.html

 

[V3]

Instead of doing Wiimake, can't they just re-map the controller to Wii controller, via the OS or something. The result wouldn't be as good, but it should give a nice novelty value.

 

[pc999]

Looks like you're a prophet...


http://wii.ign.com/articles/726/726749p1.html

And I still cant now wii specs, that is what I call a good secret .

So I can do a general question why are tools being upgraded (still optimizing in the case of Havok) if it is the same architeture, if it is a new/diferent or a superset of the old one it can make sense but this way (ie just a faster GC) I dont know if it would make sense.