New screens of Red Steel over at IGN. It's looking more and more like the screens in GI were just hype, aka "bullshots."
WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?
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COD3 360/PS3/Wii.. They all look pretty bad but Wii-version is nowhere near the others.
COD3 360/PS3/Wii.. They all look pretty bad but Wii-version is nowhere near the others.
Huh? They look like framebuffer grabs to me. They've just got a lot of compression artifacts in them. Do you think that someone just found a couple of people in crazy poses with Wiimotes to match them up with the screenshots?Teasy said:
Those pictures appeared in EGM last month and were labelled as the Wii version.
In what way? How can you think they're scans? They're not faded, nor showing any print artefacts that I can see. And they're not bad image either, even if they are scans. It's not like, because it's a scan, it's not showing the grass blades or normal mapping! I expect these are accurate images of the Wii, at least as development currently is. If they were promo shots, they'd be better showing images better than expected. And if they're not promo shots, they're real grabs showing the game in the best possible light in all likelihood, in it's current build.Teasy said:
Graphically this game looks in that 'current gen+' ball-park, but is only game in many.
Mmmkay said:
Yes these are the pictures that apeared in EGM a litttle while ago, scans from EGM. The only reason I say they're unconfirmed to me at the moment is because I didn't actually see the EGM article myself.
Shifty Geezer said:
Scans don't always have print artifacts, the image is blurred and overly dark AFAICS. Also were does this image come from? Is it coincidence that it is exactly the same image that we saw in early scans a few weeks ago from EGM (right down to the guys posing with the Wii controller). The shots could very well be of the current build of COD3 for Wii, but IMO they are just higher quality scans of the EGM pics until I see evidence to the contrary. If they were framebuffer grabs then I'd say they have some pretty messed up gamma in there new Wii game...
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It is no coincidence that these are the same pictures as from EGM. Typically publications will tie up exclusivity over unveiling games and the publicity materials will be embargoed for all other outlets. Once the embargo expires, those same screenshots can then be released by the other news outlets.Teasy said:
The text from the EGM article:
Slightly fuzzy, but I can make out individual pixels. Regards the topic, Wii's GPU and what it can do, the IQ of these images doesn't much matter. Even if the Wii renders darker, you'd just up the brightness on your TV bit. The relevance here, for me at least, is the level of detail and types of shaders. Scans or screengrabs, this information won't be affected by the source.Teasy said:
Now it could be an early build. It could be a current-gen version of the same game that they've used to represent Wii, same as using VF5 arcade pics for PS3 news. Like most of the time, information isn't absolute. But if discussing the state of Wii now, isn't this and other Wii showings the only information we can refer to? Otherwise, if we're only to have an absolute view of the hardware, we need to wait for the machines to actually release, at which point these Best Guess threads should just be dropped!
i always liked how MP's effects were't quite obvious. the heat distortion around the arm cannon if you fire shots in rapid succession. the water droplets forming on the visor in rain or around misty waterfalls. water running off the visor when you emerge from a pool. the distortion effect when you fire the charged blast. plus the different visor effects. and while not really a TEV effect, the first time i saw samus' face reflect back at me i did a double take.Teasy said:
what massive TEV effects did RL have? the targeting computer, some bump maps and some heat distortion? RL was much more geometry driven in my eyes. i think MP had a better variety of effects overall, and the sequals to each game showed that both developers have a pretty good understanding of the abilities of the GC. i just don't see why one game/developer in this case would be more appropriate to compare the hardware capabilities of the 2 hardware setups, excluding the fact that factor5 isn't working on a new star wars game or wii title while reto is working on a mew metroid title for wii.
the 360 and ps3 versions look pretty similar (as expected), and quite a bit like COD2, but the left and center 360 shots look jaggier than the rest, and the left most 360 shot has a black outline around the soldier standing up. the right 360 shot on the righthand side a wall looks like it has a rendeing error (reminds me of z fighting from older quake2 mods that added decals on walls). i'm pretty surprised sometimes when shots with obvious errors get out to the press. sometimes they even make it to box art.ZiFF said:
A few things:
A devshot is an ingame shot blown up to ridiculous resolutions with more AA and AF than a quad SLI rig could handle if it were overclocked into the terahertz region. While unreasonably smooth, they still give you an idea of what the game looks like.
A bullshot is a shot publicized as representative of the game, yet with graphical effects and art assets that mysteriously disappear. In the case of Red Steel, all the cool lighting and self-shadowing we saw in GI is just plain gone, and the models look worse as well.
Rogue Leader also had self-shadowing, specularity, and realtime reflections. Those are pretty "massive."
The smoke in those Wii COD3 screens looks nice, but are we really going to go "a whole 'nother" console generation without seeing bump mapping in more than a handful of titles on a Nintendo console? I am more impressed with DS graphics right now than Wii graphics.
A devshot is an ingame shot blown up to ridiculous resolutions with more AA and AF than a quad SLI rig could handle if it were overclocked into the terahertz region. While unreasonably smooth, they still give you an idea of what the game looks like.
A bullshot is a shot publicized as representative of the game, yet with graphical effects and art assets that mysteriously disappear. In the case of Red Steel, all the cool lighting and self-shadowing we saw in GI is just plain gone, and the models look worse as well.
Rogue Leader also had self-shadowing, specularity, and realtime reflections. Those are pretty "massive."
The smoke in those Wii COD3 screens looks nice, but are we really going to go "a whole 'nother" console generation without seeing bump mapping in more than a handful of titles on a Nintendo console? I am more impressed with DS graphics right now than Wii graphics.
I'm aware of the difference, thanks. A 1600x1200 output from a game engine is what GI received, and that is a devshot. I wouldn't necessarily jump the gun on the bullshotting, since the E3 game footage featured said lighting effects which are now mysteriously absent. Perhaps it was the casino setting which exaggerated the effect?fearsomepirate said:
see colon said:
By obvious I didn't mean effects that are easily seen, I meant effects that are more widely considered to be "shader effects", the perfect example is pixel shaded water.
RL isn't really the game too look at, RS is. Though as I said I agree that MP has some nice effects, amazing effects at the time of release. I have similar memories of first playing Metroid Prime and marvelling at the way the air around the gun distorted as I fired, and all the other great effects, at the time I'd never seen anything like them in any game. Plus the snow level in MP was simply the most beautiful level I've ever seen in any game by far, in fact I might go back and have another look on my new Samsung LE32R74BD TV
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Shifty Geezer said:
Level of detail and effects can certainly be obscured by the source, how much of that is occuring in that shot is questionable though.
Shifty Geezer said:
Yeah of course, but it should be judged for what it is, if anyone wants to compare all versions like that site then they should wait for the same kind of clear framebuffer grabs being shown for 360/PS3.
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For the last time, they are not scans. You are seriously suggesting that some resourceful person took EGM, scanned in the ~3" width pictures scaled them up to exactly 640x480 (and still managed to produce single pixel width aliasing), then hired some models to pose with Wiimotes which they had to acquire themselves?
Or maybe they're simply the original promotional shots which the majority of high profile Wii titles have been like. They are dark because, looking at the sky, they are either set at dusk or dawn unlike the PS3/360 shots. The are somewhat blurry because they have a lot of compression artifacts.
Honestly, William of Ockham must rolling in his grave!
Or maybe they're simply the original promotional shots which the majority of high profile Wii titles have been like. They are dark because, looking at the sky, they are either set at dusk or dawn unlike the PS3/360 shots. The are somewhat blurry because they have a lot of compression artifacts.
Honestly, William of Ockham must rolling in his grave!
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