WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

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Megadrive1988 said:
hmmm, it could indicate certain types of pixel shader effects. i know NV2A can do some pixel shadings that TEV cannot do, but also, TEV can do some things that NV2A cannot do.

also, NV2A has 8 texture mapping units. the Flipper has the equivalent of 4, all combined in the TEV.

NV2A can pump out 1864M texels/sec or 1.86 billion texels/sec. (bilinear filtered)
the Flipper can only pump out 648M texels/sec (trilinear filtered) so Flippers texel rate is equal to that of its pixel fillrate. but NV2A's texel rate is twice that of its pixel fillrate.

however, Flipper does have more framebuffer / graphics memory bandwidth internally with the embedded IT-SRAM.

Assuming that Hollywood does not have 2 TEV units, or a single TEV unit that can push out *8* texels per clock cycle, then NV2A would still have an advantage in texel rate. however even with 4 pixel pipelines/ROPs Hollywood could have an advantage over NV2A in pixel fillrate, as long as the core is clocked higher than 233 MHz (NV2A's clock). Developers have been working with 243 MHz Flippers or Flipper+ units.

will be interesting to see what the final Hollywood is clocked at. I think also, that Hollywood will have some neat tricks that NV2A cannot do.


but the word from the interview is, Wii as a whole is more powerful than Xbox.


c_k_i_t - thanks for posting part of the translation of the new Red Steel interview.


Devs just have to take a different approach, then what they would with DirectX based hardware. Remember Flipper couldn't do fur shading, Rare proved that wrong. Nintendo just recently patented its Recirculating Shader, so obviously there must be some added functionality.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Bootyluva/us007034828-013.jpg
 
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pc999 said:
But at what cost?

At what cost? Come on, there are PDAs that are coming near the Xbox's graphical power (cpu's are considerably farther behind though), that cost is that Wii is barely more powerful than a last generation system which the gamecube was barely less powerful than.
 
Fox5 said:
At what cost? Come on, there are PDAs that are coming near the Xbox's graphical power (cpu's are considerably farther behind though), that cost is that Wii is barely more powerful than a last generation system which the gamecube was barely less powerful than.


I has not talking about $, althought it would cost more than a HW solution.

What I mean is that if Wii will do but not the its GPU than it must be done on the CPU (I doubt they would put any more processor inside) and there is the risk of left smal room for advance in others areas like animation/AI/physics/..., if both chips sufer a equal update (like in IGN) then those areas will suffer or advance less. Unless the CPU is stronger than we are belived to think (multi core/vector engines/whatever).

Ooh-videogames said:
Devs just have to take a different approach, then what they would with DirectX based hardware. Remember Flipper couldn't do fur shading, Rare proved that wrong. Nintendo just recently patented its Recirculating Shader, so obviously there must be some added functionality.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/...034828-013.jpg

Indeed both inderect texturing/bump/environment are in a diferents blocks, meybe it is from there that come the update in ss/lighting, how old is that patent?
 
c_k_i_t said:
(Babel Fish Translation) "I do not have the right to speak in details of what Wii can do graphically. What one can say, it is that on the sum of all that it can do, Wii is more powerful than Xbox. But there are things which Xbox can make and which Wii cannot make."

So the Wii is more powerful than the XBox, but the Xbox can do some GFX effect than the Wii cannot do? So the TEV limits are still there?

I'd be wary of taking the comment literally. Even if Wii was just a more powerful GC (which I don't believe for a second) I can't think of anything XBox could do that a 'more powerful then XBox GameCube' couldn't do anyway.

I wish Jessica would hurry up with this interview so we can possibly put an end to this wild speculation (assuming the interview really does exist.. which I'm finding harder and harder to believe with every passing day)
 
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Teasy said:
I wish Jessica would hurry up with this interview so we can possibly put an end to this wild speculation (assuming the interview really does exist.. which I'm finding harder and harder to believe with every passing day)


I'll 2nd that.
 
here's the entire Red Steel interview translated ( i think it's the entire thing)

Overgame : How did the pre-E3 conference occur ?

Novel Campos Oriola : It was really interesting to be with all people of Nintendo. We côtoyé Iwata and Miyamoto during two days during the repetitions.

Red Steel was proposed much, at the same time in the specialized press and at the time of the pre-E3 conference. Does Nintendo count much on you ?

Yes, they count much on us because we were the first studio at which Nintendo presented the télémanette. We had just met them after E3, last year. They had explained us what would be able the accessory : both pads, recognition of movements, etc. During two or three months, we thought on a concept and possible movements with the realizers. And in July 2005, we went to see them in Kyoto. We presented a first concept [ NDR to them : under the name of Katana Project, at the time ] and since, we work more or less narrowly with them according to periods'. Sometimes we have an iteration every month or two months. Sometimes, like that was the case right before this E3, we practically twice have iterations per week.

How is the experiment of development of plays on Wii ?

It is very different bus the interface is completely different. Blow, it is necessary to reinvent control methods because there is not currently any gun in this field on Wii. All the work which we mainly had with Nintendo was to try to find a way common to this level.

How are the engagements with the sabre with the gyroscopic lever managed ?

In fact, it is acted of detection of movements. Those are detected, compared compared to a bank of known movements and, if there is a correspondence, the program connects on animations. It is not exactly true positioning in space.

Do you have other ideas of what could be realizable with this kind of interface ?

When the first prototypes were received, eight month ago, one started while thinking of the types of movements which would be interesting to realize. One left the lists and the lists. There was full with interesting things like, for example, throw of the shurikens. The possibilities are multiple. All that is detection of movements goes very, very well.

It would be said that work was to restrict you.

To restrict itself, yes, but also especially to find what appears most natural. Typically, for the doors, we had started by saying that it would be enough to make a movement [ rotation of the wrist ] because everyone opens a door like that. In fact, we realized that nobody makes this movement in the same way. And that most natural, finally, it was to explain to somebody whom it had just to push the door. Finally, it is there this movement which was retained. It is there that work is rather difficult : to try to know what "will speak" more to people in terms of movement.

Would you say, of the blow, which introduced Wii of new challenges for the game designers ?

Yes As the interface is different, the first basic challenge is to wonder what will be clear for the player. But there are also other problems. For example, the actions should well be cut out. You cannot ask to the player to carry out movements into simultaneous on both pads, as if it played the battery. There is full with small things of this kind which we discovered during the phases of test.

But in can the future, one imagine more complex methods of control for the Wii plays ?

If one puts a play Playstation of first generation vis-a-vis at a play Playstation of last generation, visually, both do not have anything to see. In the same way that, on Playstation or Xbox, of new graphic bookshops arrive progressively with the lifespan of the console, one can imagine that Wii will accomodate, in the long term, of the methods of recognition of movements increasingly sophisticated. With my opinion, according to progress that our team made into three or four months, the detection of movements even more intuitive and will be pushed in one six months/one year. Currently, it goes well but there is still full with small failures. You feel that you are obliged to make the movement which will be recognized. But it is in good way, and I have really confidence because it is a technology which is nevertheless rather complex to take in hand and to control. One is yet only at the beginning.

Can one say that technology is put at the second plan with Wii ?

Graphic technology, yes. But technology that you have in the hand, it, progresses enormously.

Will graphics of Wii be also progressing ?

With my opinion, quality will remain relatively stable. Wii is rather close to Gamecube. It is more powerful but that remains the same type of environment ; these are things that the developers know well. I think that it acts of a console which, upon the departure, will put the graphic bar at the neighbourhoods of the maximum of its capacities. There will be surely people who will a little further push it but as it acts of an architecture very easy to control, one sees all quickly that one can make with.

The rumours spoke about a power comparable with that of Xbox...

I do not have the right to speak in details of what Wii can do graphically. What one can say, it is that on the sum of all that it can do, Wii is more powerful than Xbox. But there are things which Xbox can make and which Wii cannot make.


Could Red Steel constitute on Wii the pioneer of a style of plays closer to than one is accustomed to finding on Playstation 2 or Xbox, but with a different interface ?

It is a little what one tried to do. It is also for that that Nintendo came to seek us at the base. They said to us to know to make plays like Zelda or Mario, but to need us - of our expertise, one could say - for things which they cannot inevitably make : a little adult FPS, more directed a little action. Because Metroid, even if it acts at the base of a FPS, nevertheless remains more platform and ventures.

There, the universe is much darker.

We will try to be classified "For teenagers" [ in the United States ], compared to all the problems which the country currently connait with the video game. It is for that that there will be no blood or dismemberments. They are marketing choices for the USA. But on the level of the universe and the scenario, yes, that will be something of rather dark.

Is Red Steel a universe which can evolve/move, the beginning of a new frankness ?

One will try to do that of it. It is a little the objective of this partnership with Nintendo
 
Teasy said:
I wish Jessica would hurry up with this interview so we can possibly put an end to this wild speculation (assuming the interview really does exist.. which I'm finding harder and harder to believe with every passing day)
The interview's nothing but lies and bullshit, I'm sure of it. Sadly, because the bogus rumors it invented about wii were quite interesting. As usual with bogus rumors, I might add...

No way it would have to take this long just to let someone on the outside listen to the alledged audio recording and then attempt to verify its authenticity (which might be difficult in either case, because it would just be this one guy's word it is authentic, and also, it would require said one guy to know what the interviewed person's voice sounds like.)
 
Megadrive1988 said:
I'll 2nd that.


I´ll 3rd that too

BTW look that there will not be a micro in wii too and that the Wi-Fi will be a direct extention of DS one.

EGM: So why not include a camera or especially a microphone?

SM: Well, obviously there are questions of cost and technology. When you think about the type of microphone that would be easy for people to use for home play you think of a headset. And so the issue is, if you have a headset somehow attached to the controller, it gets complicated to use, and we wanted [everything to] be easy to use-simple and fun.


EGM: Did you look at what the Xbox 360 is doing online for your own online plans? Or will it look more like the DS, where you have a code for each game that you have to give to your friends?

SM: Unfortunately, I can't really answer all these questions right now, and part of it is [that] I'm not really familiar with everything they're doing on Xbox Live. But in terms of service for a home console, we'll be using servers and taking advantage of that functionality. We'll be focusing on evolving it from the Wi-Fi Connection [service] we have on the DS. With the system being online all the time, it will be sitting there waiting to receive information, so we can take advantage of that to influence gameplay and do some different things. A lot of our ideas we'll be talking about later this year.

In those cases I like easy things but this is almost call we stupid.
 
Guden Oden said:
No way it would have to take this long just to let someone on the outside listen to the alledged audio recording and then attempt to verify its authenticity

I was on 56K for I think just over a week after the interview happened. As fun as it sounds, I'm not going to sit up all night downloading a gigantic 1+ hour mp3 for you guys. And because of how things work at Ft Wayne, I didn't even get Internet access until Monday. Now that I'm back in school again and spending3 -4 hours a day in Greek class/chapel and burning my afternoons learning vocab and declensions, I dont' have much time to sit around waiting for Jessica to come online. Since class starts at 7:30 in the morning (don't believe me? Check here: http://www.ctsfw.edu/academics/sched/mdiv05.php. Search for "Summer Greek"), I'm typically going to bed a lot earlier than I did when I caught Jessica online almost every day. So yeah, there's a way, and that's it. I was moving and starting Greek boot camp, not sitting around staring at my computer monitor waiting for the next drop of video game news.

If you want to think I'm a liar, fine. The fact is this last week was my first week at the sem, and it's been busy as hell. Hence, this website and video games in general have NOT been my number 1 priority. I'm hoping to talk to Jessica soon and see what's up.
 
fearsomepirate said:
If you want to think I'm a liar, fine. The fact is this last week was my first week at the sem, and it's been busy as hell. Hence, this website and video games in general have NOT been my number 1 priority. I'm hoping to talk to Jessica soon and see what's up.

Nobody called you a liar, unless that Jessica girl is attached to your body. :LOL: But let's say the alleged interview remains shrouded in mystery. Moreover, the developer seems to have contradicted the statements from original "interview" in that French interview.
 
Fearsome, I don't think your a liar, I don't think anyone else does either. After all if you wanted to lie then you would simply say you've heard the interview and confirm that its real. However I really doubt Jessica now (sorry Jessica, nothing personal), because there just seems to be very little effort going into to getting the interview to you. For instance, the file really doesn't need to be huge. Its an audio interview, a 32k WMA/MP3 would probably be good enough quality (14MB for one hour..), 64k would be more then enough (28MB). Also if you're missing each other online, which is understandable, then why not simply email the file to you, then when you get online the file will be waiting. Or upload it to yousendit and email the link to you, there are loads of easy ways to do this..

So again, I believe you, but my belief in the interview itself has pretty much disapeared now, not matter how much I wanted to believe it :(
 
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Well, so far, all the delays have been pretty much my fault, which is why I took it a little personally. Things are now even-keeled, I can keep my computer up 24/7, and so if you hear nothing for the next week, it's because she's disappeared. Then you can assume whatever you want without argument from me.

I've been noticiing the absence of normal mapping in a lot of the newer screenshots. Could Wii be lacking a fully programmable pixel shader, instead opting for a TEV Turbo?
 
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fearsomepirate said:
I've been noticiing the absence of normal mapping in a lot of the newer screenshots. Could Wii be lacking a fully programmable pixel shader, instead opting for a TEV Turbo?

I would think it is for other reasons there isnt also any kind of bump/environmeent mapping also (suported by HW) and GC can also do normal (eg SC3) or polybump maping.

Probably art direction than anything else.
 
pc999 said:
I would think it is for other reasons there isnt also any kind of bump/environmeent mapping also (suported by HW) and GC can also do normal (eg SC3) or polybump maping.

There's environment mapping on the water in the Sonic videos...I mean, unless I've completely misunderstood what that means. There's some bump mapping in the Mario Galaxy videos, too. SC3? I assume you meant "Splinter Cell 3," which on the Cube was a buggy port of the PS2 version with no normal mapping anywhere. AFAIK, the only place it's been seen for Gamecube has been in Crytek middleware, which has gone unused by developers for Cube.
 
pc999 said:
I would think it is for other reasons there isnt also any kind of bump/environmeent mapping also (suported by HW) and GC can also do normal (eg SC3) or polybump maping.

The GCN doesn't support Dot3 bump mapping in HW. So the only options left would be to do it via Gekko which is not viable.
 
There's environment mapping on the water in the Sonic videos...
I assume you meant "Splinter Cell 3," which on the Cube was a buggy port of the PS2 version with no normal mapping anywhere.


Yes you are right, my falt.

I am not so sure about use of bump maping in Mario Galaxy.

BTW anyway now what is the diference between Polybump and normal maping:?: the results seems the same.

So the only way of getting new fxs is if we get a good upgrad to the CPU?
 
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hupfinsgack said:
The GCN doesn't support Dot3 bump mapping in HW. So the only options left would be to do it via Gekko which is not viable.
But EMBM can do the exact same effects as normal mapping, plus non monocrome and oddly shaped lights.
Depending on how they implemented it on Hollywood, developers should be able to use is anywhere from a lot to nearly all the time.
 
Squeak said:
But EMBM can do the exact same effects as normal mapping, plus non monocrome and oddly shaped lights.
Depending on how they implemented it on Hollywood, developers should be able to use is anywhere from a lot to nearly all the time.


Are you sure, Factor 5 used the TEV to do bump maping instead of the the HW one because it is more realistic.
 
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pc999 said:
So the only way of getting new fxs is if we get a good upgrading to the CPU.

Or the GPU. In one of the early Galaxy videos, you can see bump mapping on some kind of Chomp.
 
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fearsomepirate said:
Or the GPU.

But assuming the GPU is like flipper we would need to get bigger upgrade (in relation the the GPU) in the CPU so we can get new things, isntead of more of the same.
 
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